Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

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_Ceeboo
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _Ceeboo »

Listened to the first 40 minutes or so (will attempt to finish when I can find the time).

Abosbatoootly fascinating stuff!

A shout out of thanks to George for the time/effort taken to share with us all.


by the way: As a Michigander, it is way cool to learn that you are at U of M (Go Blue!)

ETA: A very, very educational podcast, to be sure.

Peace,
Ceeboo
_Buffalo
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _Buffalo »

The second part is up. It looks like Joseph got many of his strange ideas (Adamic language, various themes in the POGP, including attempted murder of Abraham) from this book:

http://books.google.com/books/about/The ... 9DAAAAIAAJ
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_karl61
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _karl61 »

This thread should be renamed: George Millers insights on Mason history.

He always contributes a great deal when explaining the issues of Mormons and Masons.

I always found him to be kind and very insightful from the things he posted. I'm sure the podcast will just confirm this.
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_badseed
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _badseed »

The podcast(s) have been pretty interesting so far. Part 1 was a overview history of Masonry and the newest installment gets into some specifics regarding Mormonism. Don't know that I find all the parallels super compelling but much of it is. Hope part 3 is not far off.
Crawling around the evidence in order to maintain a testimony of the Book of Mormon.

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_Drifting
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _Drifting »

When I was brought up in the Church the Masonoic organization was always portrayed as 'of the devil' and I was instructed that Mormons needed to stay away from it.

Is it Church policy that Mormon's cannot be Mason's? Or is it discouraged/frowned upon informally?
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_Buffalo
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _Buffalo »

Drifting wrote:When I was brought up in the Church the Masonoic organization was always portrayed as 'of the devil' and I was instructed that Mormons needed to stay away from it.

Is it Church policy that Mormon's cannot be Mason's? Or is it discouraged/frowned upon informally?


I haven't heard it for a while. If the church stops talking about something that means they're retracting it (they'll never announce that - they don't like to admit to making mistakes).

They only had the anti-masonic statements in the first place because for a while the Utah lodges banned Mormons. Now it's been so long since Mormons have had any sort of real masonic presence in their ranks that the temple endowment ritual is completely devoid of context and meaning for most members.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Willy Law
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _Willy Law »

It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.
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_Blixa
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _Blixa »

Drifting wrote:Is it Church policy that Mormon's cannot be Mason's? Or is it discouraged/frowned upon informally?


I don't ever know that that was a policy. I remember hearing the wisp of a rumor to that effect in church, but beyond that, I'm curious if it ever was an "actual policy" (I know how hard it is to establish what those are sometimes).

I also suspect Buffalo is correct that its not mentioned much at all anymore.

However, I'd like to know more about Buffalo's assertion that Utah lodges didn't accept Mormons. I think I "knew" this, but if you have any commentary you could link to, Buffalo, I'd appreciate it.

At the NYPL, I've often read through the diaries of John W. Phelps who served as an army captain at Camp Floyd. As vociferous a critic of Mormonism as Masonry (after the Civil War he ran for president on an Anti-Masonic platform), Phelps had no idea about the overlap between his two bêtes noires. Had he, well, what he wrote in his journals would have singed the page!

(Since this thread has been topped, I'd also like to endorse the OP and encourage everyone to listen to George Miller's Mormon Expression podcasts. They are fascinating and it's always inspiring to hear someone so completely tickled by his research!)
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_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Thread Necromancy from July? How did you manage to find this Drifting?
_Buffalo
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Re: Poster George Miller: Shamless Mason Apologist.

Post by _Buffalo »

Blixa wrote:
Drifting wrote:Is it Church policy that Mormon's cannot be Mason's? Or is it discouraged/frowned upon informally?


I don't ever know that that was a policy. I remember hearing the wisp of a rumor to that effect in church, but beyond that, I'm curious if it ever was an "actual policy" (I know how hard it is to establish what those are sometimes).

I also suspect Buffalo is correct that its not mentioned much at all anymore.

However, I'd like to know more about Buffalo's assertion that Utah lodges didn't accept Mormons. I think I "knew" this, but if you have any commentary you could link to, Buffalo, I'd appreciate it.

At the NYPL, I've often read through the diaries of John W. Phelps who served as an army captain at Camp Floyd. As vociferous a critic of Mormonism as Masonry (after the Civil War he ran for president on an Anti-Masonic platform), Phelps had no idea about the overlap between his two bêtes noires. Had he, well, what he wrote in his journals would have singed the page!

(Since this thread has been topped, I'd also like to endorse the OP and encourage everyone to listen to George Miller's Mormon Expression podcasts. They are fascinating and it's always inspiring to hear someone so completely tickled by his research!)


My source is George Miller's interview on ME. I don't remember which one exactly - probably one of the last ones.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
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