Meeting with Bishop: Faith is a Choice

[_Buffalo]

Buffalo,

There is no evidence that there is such a being as God.

Yes there is. I can respect differing judgments regarding the strength or weakness regarding the various evidences but to say there is none is absurd and ignorant and it detracts from intellectually satisfying discussion.

I'm aware of the difference between evidence and proof, but we're a long way from talking about proof. It'd be nice if you even had the tiniest scrap of evidence, but you don't.

Oh good grief. My and many others religious experience is clearly and unquestionably 'evidence'. Just how are you using these terms if your so familiar with the difference? I go into Court all the time and opposing counsel and myself know the reality of the situation - but we still have to address the evidence that both sides have and present. In some of the most feeble and ridiculous of cases evidence exists that needs to be addressed conclusively. To say there exists evidence is different from the judgment regarding the evidence. I understand you dismiss the evidence but to say there is none is contrary to reality. There simply would be nothing to talk about if there actually was zero evidence. The wouldn't be a ability for our cognitive faculties to even form a belief (even if it were wrong) regarding God. I simply do not understand this cliché ridden attitude.

mikwut

No, there is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of god. The "evidence" believers like to posit does not merit the term. I can claim that the existence of large boulders is "evidence" for spontaneous auto-liposuction, but I have not established a relationship nor even that such a phenomenon exists. Such is the state of all the "evidence" posited for God.

[_Hoops]

I answered your question. Reality is that which is backed up by the evidence. Fantasy is that which is posited without evidence.

Hush now. Adults are talking.

What evidence? What evidence do you have that the computer on which you are composing this dubious argument does in fact comport to actual reality?

[_Buffalo]

I answered your question. Reality is that which is backed up by the evidence. Fantasy is that which is posited without evidence.

Hush now. Adults are talking.

What evidence? What evidence do you have that the computer on which you are composing this dubious argument does in fact comport to actual reality?

[_Rambo]

Oh good grief. My and many others religious experience is clearly and unquestionably 'evidence'.

Can I ask what these experiences are?

In the Mormon faith it was mainly just a good feeling. Sure there was some people that said they had visions but they were usually sleeping at the time or I don't know what their state of mind was.

If people told me they saw a ghost I don't believe them cause I have never seen them myself.

In my experience with just Mormons mind you most of them just had a good feeling. I would say about 99% of them would base their belief on this good feeling. The other 1% said they saw something and they were usually the little bit more unstable people in the ward. Plus why should I except what this 1% saw? What makes them so special they get these visions? How come I can't see it too and then I would know god does exist.

From what I have learned I really haven't seen any evidence of a god based on religious experience.

[_mikwut]

Buffalo,

No, there is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of god. The "evidence" believers like to posit does not merit the term. I can claim that the existence of large boulders is "evidence" for spontaneous auto-liposuction, but I have not established a relationship nor even that such a phenomenon exists. Such is the state of all the "evidence" posited for God.

Our faculties form beliefs spontaneously from reality imposing itself on us in the form of evidence. Sometimes the beliefs are reliable, sometimes they are not. No one, and I mean that literally, no one has formed a belief for spontaneous auto-liposuction from the existence of large boulders. There is no causal connection for our faculties to adduce, it is simply crude nonsense. The vast majority of mankind has formed the belief in a God being or beings - that is factual and that is not possible without evidence of some kind from reality upon their/our cognitive faculties. This is such a minor and banal point I am amazed you stubbornly fight it.

Your statements are not only inaccurate, regardless of the veracity of the conclusion regarding the evidence, they display a great deal of immaturity towards the state of the evidence. But, your opinion, in spite of the clear existence of evidence, simply means there is nothing for us to talk about. I don't discuss the existence of things that have zero evidence and are clearly nonsense with other people, like boulders and liposuction. I have complete apathy for such topics as I would recommend to you as well. Apathy in fact would be the evidential response that it is nonsense. But, based on clear evidence, you spend inordinate amounts of time posting and thinking about God and religion - yet there is no evidence?!? That is unstable and unhealthy.

mikwut

[_Hoops]

That's not quite what I'm describing, but I'll note that you have no answer. Please refrain from this point forward from dogmatically proclaiming the virtues of "evidence" when you are not prepared to offer any proof that your evidence can be trusted to point to reality.

[_Chap]

That's not quite what I'm describing, but I'll note that you have no answer. Please refrain from this point forward from dogmatically proclaiming the virtues of "evidence" when you are not prepared to offer any proof that your evidence can be trusted to point to reality.

I think it would be helpful if you could point to something you are prepared to accept as 'reality', and that you believe will be perceptible to those who read your posts.

[_Buffalo]

That's not quite what I'm describing, but I'll note that you have no answer. Please refrain from this point forward from dogmatically proclaiming the virtues of "evidence" when you are not prepared to offer any proof that your evidence can be trusted to point to reality.

Hush now, adults are talking.

[_Hoops]

I think it would be helpful if you could point to something you are prepared to accept as 'reality', and that you believe will be perceptible to those who read your posts.

I think it would be helpful if you could point to experiential evidence that we can know comports with reality. It's not up to me to prove your case for you, it's up to you.

[_Buffalo]

No one, and I mean that literally, no one has formed a belief for spontaneous auto-liposuction from the existence of large boulders. There is no causal connection for our faculties to adduce, it is simply crude nonsense.

Yes, and like all good metaphors, the relationship is nearly 1:1 with the topic being discussed. There is no established relationship between your feelings of faith and devotion and spirituality with the existence of some sort of god. The feelings you feel are evidence that something is going on in your brain. Believers fail to establish a relationship with them to god, or even that there is such a thing as god - just as in my "crude" metaphor.