Worshiping Science

[_Ceeboo]

Hello Molok,

Aren't your beloved Jewish friends the ones who wrote the Messiah prophecies?

Yes.

Wouldn't they be the best ones to decide who does / doesn't fulfill them?

I think it is safe to suggest that, since they still await the Messiah, they already have, indeed, decided.

As far as my opinion/belief goes, do you think that folks (who do not share a certain position/belief) should be and remain silent on these matters?

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Buffalo]

Hey Buffalo,

No need for that, Mr. Ceeboo.

I agree and offer you my apology.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Appreciated, thanks :)

[_ludwigm]

Pink noise...

Thank You.
There is a hungarian saying: A good priest learns until his death.

[_Morley]

I think it is safe to suggest that, since they still await the Messiah, they already have, indeed, decided.

This is a common Christian misunderstanding. Most Jews are not awaiting a Messiah.

[_Molok]

As far as my opinion/belief goes, do you think that folks (who do not share a certain position/belief) should be and remain silent on these matters?

Peace,
Ceeboo

Absolutely not! Certainly not you, in any case.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey, Morley.

This is a common Christian misunderstanding. Most Jews are not awaiting a Messiah.

Really?
Do tell? (Please) For clarity, I am being sincere.

As far as I am aware (other than some off-shoots from Judaism (obviously including Messianic Jews), the orthodox Jews are still waiting.)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Morley]

Hey, Morley.

This is a common Christian misunderstanding. Most Jews are not awaiting a Messiah.

Really?
Do tell? (Please) For clarity, I am being sincere.

As far as I am aware (other than some off-shoots from Judaism (obviously including Messianic Jews), the orthodox Jews are still waiting.)

Peace,
Ceeboo

I’m certainly no expert. I can only speak about what I know from my study and from the Jews in my family. In principal, Judaism embraces the belief there will be some Messianic Age when Israel is restored and secure, when everyone will worship the same God. In practice, Reform and Conservative Jews don’t ever talk about a messiah (I doubt Orthodox Jews do, either). I think that false messiahs like in the Shabbateanism movement with some Seventeen Century Ashkenazi Jews (and maybe some guy nailed to a tree around Caesar’s time) kind of put a kibosh on the belief.

Many Jews are agnostic about a celestial afterlife, too. A rabbi I once knew told me that we're supposed to live good lives without any expectation of a reward. I liked that.

[_Nightlion]

What did he do that deserves your worship? He thought he was the Jewish Messiah (not God). He didn't fulfill any of the Messianic prophesies though. He had a few nice ideas (not unique to him) and a few bad ideas. He was seemly arrogant and cocksure, and thumbed his nose at the religious leadership of the time, and was murdered for it. I'm sure he didn't deserve to die, but I can't think of anything he did worthy of worship.

It is what he already did before he came into the world, what he took upon himself while in this world, and for you personally, what he is going to do just as soon as you come unto him with full purpose of heart and repent just and true, you will be wrought upon with a new creation. That sort of thing only a living and true God can accomplish. Having secured therefore this manner of sanctification you will know God and Jesus Christ whom he sent.

On the other hand, living or dead, when the Lord comes to the world again you shall call for the rocks to fall upon you to hide you from him.

Alma 12: 14
14 For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to chide us from his presence.

[_Franktalk]

Aren't your beloved Jewish friends the ones who wrote the Messiah prophecies? Wouldn't they be the best ones to decide who does / doesn't fulfill them?

The Jews did not write the prophecies. Yes they may have moved the writing implement or talked to the scribe but the Words came from God. They could not know any more than anybody else what the meaning was unless it was translated for them. Anyone who reads Daniel knows this to be true. He describes writing the messages but not understanding them. How can we assign knowledge or understanding to the person who was used as a tool of God? And the Jews were chosen because they were the descendants of Abraham not because they had a corner on understanding.

The prophecies of the coming of the Messiah come in two flavors. One set He is meek and is killed. The other set He is a King who rules with a rod of iron and His kingdom is the whole world. The Jews ignored the prophecy about the meek Messiah they instead were looking for the strong ruler. But we can't place to much judgment on the Jews. Many saw Jesus and few could see who He was. And now many Jews have spiritual blindness as an act of mercy which will not be lifted until His return.

So why would we use someone with spiritual blindness to interpret scripture?

[_Chap]

But we can't place to much judgment on the Jews. ... why would we use someone with spiritual blindness to interpret scripture?

Yup. We should be especially careful about having anything to do with that pesky bunch of Jews who followed him around all the time getting on his nerves, a.k.a. the Twelve Apostles. Peter was the worst of the bunch. You can see what Jesus thought of him, since he told him somewhere that he would never let him near the business of founding his church, not in a million years. You'll easily find the text for yourself.

And as for all those so-called 'gospels' written by Jews, and stuff like the epistles of Paul (who was really, get this, a Jew called Saul all the time, but you'll easily see through that!!!), well the less said about them the better.

Thank goodness that in Thomas Monson, and in the line of Latter-Day prophets before him, we have some non-Jews who have talked direct to Jesus on a weekly basis. Now we can hear what Jesus really meant, including the important stuff about underwear and earrings that those Jews simply failed to get because they were either not listening or functioning as mere dictation software!