Simon Belmont: This is what "quote mining" means

[_Yoda]

Simply because one has a strong testiimony does not make him/her a strong debator. Actually, I have seen a lot of evidence supporting just the opposite on this board.

I don't think that Simon's testimony should come into question. Anyone can become flustered, or, Chap, to use your word, "anxious", during a debate...even when one feels strongly about their position. Sometimes, that is exactly the time when one becomes anxious.

[_Chap]

Simply because one has a strong testiimony does not make him/her a strong debator. Actually, I have seen a lot of evidence supporting just the opposite on this board.

I would agree with you. I would think that the tendency to hold unconditionally to strong beliefs on intuitive and non-rational grounds is likely to militate against the ability to take part effectively in evidence-based debate. To engage another point of view critically requires that you should see its strengths as well as its weaknesses, doesn't it?.

I don't think that Simon's testimony should come into question. Anyone can become flustered, or, Chap, to use your word, "anxious", during a debate...even when one feels strongly about their position. Sometimes, that is exactly the time when one becomes anxious.

Anything can come into question in this forum, can't it, except certain expletives and explicit temple content? I can imagine that there might well be instances when someone's patent simplicity and sincerity might make one hold back on an obvious critical observation that might cause pain. Belmont is not one of those posters.

Again, your notion of a poster being occasionally flustered in the cut and thrust of debate might apply to some posters, sometimes. But I don't think that is what we observe in the case of Belmont.

[_Yoda]

Anything can come into question in this forum, can't it, except certain expletives and explicit temple content? I can imagine that there might well be instances when someone's patent simplicity and sincerity might make one hold back on an obvious critical observation that might cause pain. Belmont is not one of those posters.

I think that Simon is more sensitive than you give him credit for.

Again, your notion of a poster being occasionally flustered in the cut and thrust of debate might apply to some posters, sometimes. But I don't think that is what we observe in the case of Belmont.

It is what I have observed. What have you observed differently?

[_Chap]

'Getting flustered' is in my experience a condition one would normally attribute to someone on an occasional basis, the idea being that they were usually in some other state, and that the 'flustered' behavior was exceptional. I see Belmont as being pretty consistent in his style of posting, and there is very little of it that I find either admirable or interesting.

But then tastes may differ.

[_Rambo]

It is too painful for Simon to confront posts like those, Darth. What we are seeing here with him are all the consequences of his failure to heed the counsel of Church leaders. He thought that his testimony was so iron-clad that he could read anti-Mormon materials without it affecting him. He thought he could go toe-to-toe with the toughest critics, shaking his fist at the sky and screaming, "I will take [them] down!" but it has been an utter failure. Instead, he coughs up rote replies and says the same things over and over again, but this will do nothing to repair the deepening cracks in his testimony. He is headed on a collision course with apostasy, and it terrifies him.

This totally reminds me of what would happen if people like my Dad or my old bishop started being like Simon. If they came on these boards they would be scared to death that they would lose there testimony. I bet they couldn't even survive on this board longer than a day without having some serious doubt. What DarthJ just posted on the other thread would really make me question about why Jesus would die for a rapist and the rapist gets off free. It least that is the LDS perspective if he repents.

[_Buffalo]

So who is Belmont currently posting as now? I have a hard time believing that a personality like his just petered out and posts so infrequently.

[_Simon Belmont]

Because Simon Belmont has recently offered his assertion yet again that I am misrepresenting the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I am bumping this thread to remind him of my open invitation for him or anyone else to point to a single example of something I have said on this board that misrepresents the teachings of the LDS Church or takes statements from LDS leaders or curricula out of context.

Look, ya silly goose, I don't need to find an example of something you've posted on this board that misrepresents the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- most of your posts do that. One need only use the handy-dandy search feature located at the top of the page, and insert "Darth J" into the author field.

The simple fact is this: you attempt to paint an untrue picture of my church by data-mining from past publications those ideas and opinions which support the particular picture you're painting. It's like you're the Bob Ross of anti-Mormonism.

I have a hard time believing that you actually believe the caricature you represent here on MDB, because it is so far from the truth about the church for which you served a full-time mission.

If you do actually believe what you say here, then I can only conclude that you either learned nothing from your mission, or have forgotten everything from it.

[_sock puppet]

Simply because one has a strong testiimony does not make him/her a strong debator. Actually, I have seen a lot of evidence supporting just the opposite on this board.

I don't think that Simon's testimony should come into question. Anyone can become flustered, or, Chap, to use your word, "anxious", during a debate...even when one feels strongly about their position. Sometimes, that is exactly the time when one becomes anxious.

hi, liz,

I agree a strong testimony/belief does not equate with being a strong debater.

Dr Scratch's sentiment sort of dovetails with BKP's admonition to 'leave it alone', "it" being the historical issues. Also, the admonition of the Church and specifically mission presidents for missionaries not to get involved in 'Bible bashes' with Baptists or others in the Bible Belt.

One with a strong testimony that becomes exposed to the historical and consistency problems of Mormonism often begins questioning his or her beliefs. A crisis of faith may ensue. After one that enters the arena, into the fray of debate (whether a good debater or not), he or she sees that there are in fact problematic issues that have never been properly handled by Church authorities and for which there are not good answers, but nagging doubts, questions and concerns remaining. This has a gnawing, erosive effect on the testimony and beliefs.

BKP gave sage counsel for those wanting to protect their beliefs and testimony in Mormonism's truth claims. Don't look into these issues. "Leave it alone."

So when a fire-brand believer comes to an arena like MDB, wielding his or her sword left, right, up and down, and then becomes semi-silent, it is often a signal of the crisis of faith occurring. If he or she left the board suddenly and entirely, did not even lurk here, it would be more likely that he or she perhaps left with his or her testimony unscathed. But when there is the occasional posting, in a much milder, meeker tone than before when brandishing that sword, there is a tale tell evidence that perhaps that crisis of faith is taking place.

I too think that it is fair game for any poster here to speculate as to what might be taking place with another's faith and testimony. It is a Mormon topic.

[_emilysmith]

It's like you're the Bob Ross of anti-Mormonism.

new favorite quote

[_Simon Belmont]

So when a fire-brand believer comes to an arena like MDB, wielding his or her sword left, right, up and down, and then becomes semi-silent, it is often a signal of the crisis of faith occurring.

No way, Sox. I'm just getting tired of how we treat each other here (myself included).