Simon Belmont: This is what "quote mining" means

[_Simon Belmont]

LOL! You're such an amateur, Simon.

I decided not to say that. It's late here and, as I said before, I am already sick of how we treat each other. Go ahead, gang up on me, but the words of Darth J. are here, written in stone, for all to see.

He just can't admit he's wrong.

You have done nothing to show that the Church does not in fact teach that Christ experienced every possible pain and sorrow that a man, woman, or child is capable of experiencing.

LOL! Now you're using "mopologist" logic? It's okay when you say "you can't prove it didn't happen!" But not when a believing member says it?

You are also arguing with the Bretheren, not with me. If you don't like the word "vicariously," take it up with Marion G. Romney.

No, I am arguing with your misrepresentations of what the church actually teaches. Vicariously is fine, but when you backtrack with "well, he imagined it," that's faulty reasoning.

[_sock puppet]

It's really a shame that members don't have access to the Ensign like Darth J. does. If they did, they would surely see what a joke the LDS church is.


Oh... wait.

The difference is Darth J reads the Ensign, and mentally correlates what he's read in the Ensign with what he's read in prior issues of the Ensign. This allows him to know what the LDS church teachings are, even if they have not been cleared through NAMIRS. It also allows Darth J to see one inconsistency after another.

Many members of the LDS church feel good for just subscribing, even if they just pile those issues on their caffeine-free Pepsi table. Others do read them, but just simply nod as they "read" the Ensign. Accepting every word without giving any thought to any of it.

Oh...wait.

[_Darth J]

You have done nothing to show that the Church does not in fact teach that Christ experienced every possible pain and sorrow that a man, woman, or child is capable of experiencing.

LOL! Now you're using "mopologist" logic? It's okay when you say "you can't prove it didn't happen!" But not when a believing member says it?

No, Master of Philosophy. I made a prima facie case. That shifts the burden to you to disprove my prima facie case.

You are also arguing with the Bretheren, not with me. If you don't like the word "vicariously," take it up with Marion G. Romney.

No, I am arguing with your misrepresentations of what the church actually teaches. Vicariously is fine, but when you backtrack with "well, he imagined it," that's faulty reasoning.

That isn't a backtrack. Saying "vicariously," then quoting the dictionary definition of "vicarious," then citing LDS leaders using the word "vicariously" to describe Christ's suffering is maintaining a consistent position.

If you don't like the dictionary definition of the word used by the Bretheren, then take it up with them.

And for real, Simon, thank you for the continuing unintentional comedy you provide. I'm sorry that it's at the expense of your mental and emotional health, but maybe if you ever become a Christian, you will find the faith to accept his vicarious suffering for you.

[_Kishkumen]

LOL! You're such an amateur, Simon.

I decided not to say that. It's late here and, as I said before, I am already sick of how we treat each other. Go ahead, gang up on me....

No hard feelings, Simon. I was hurt when Ray called me Scratch's lackey because I consider Ray a friend. What none of you seem to understand is that I don't give two figs about anti-Mormonism. Never have, really. I was always mostly irked by apologetics I didn't like. Still am. I know you think that makes me anti-Mormon, but I sincerely believe that apologetics are mostly a bad crutch and, for the apologist, an ego boost. I see little value in such things. It has little or nothing to do with abiding faith, in my opinion.

[_sock puppet]

yeah... nevermind

Or you could step up your game. Nightlion has more faith in the tip of his pinky than you may ever have, Simon. He doesn't cling to sad sack pseudo-science to prop up his spirit. He goes to the source. You should pay more attention to him...

Amen.

[_RayAgostini]

No hard feelings, Simon. I was hurt when Ray called me Scratch's lackey because I consider Ray a friend. What none of you seem to understand is that I don't give two figs about anti-Mormonism. Never have, really. I was always mostly irked by apologetics I didn't like. Still am. I know you think that makes me anti-Mormon, but I sincerely believe that apologetics are mostly a bad crutch and, for the apologist, an ego boost. I see little value in such things. It has little or nothing to do with abiding faith, in my opinion.

There's a lot still seriously wrong about apologetics, and I didn't mean to deter you in that way, but I'd avoid Scratch, until he has the moral fortitude to declare who he really is. The only thing I've learned about Scratch from my long association with him here - is that he's a liar. "Jeff", are you there?

[_ludwigm]

How many pages are you going to talk to yourself without showing anyone where I supposedly said that Jesus actually, physically got raped?

Simon has a perverse imagination.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15876968 (28 November 2011 00:34 GMT )

Zimbabwean police believe there is a nationwide syndicate of women raping men, possibly to use their semen for use in rituals that claim to make people wealthy.

It has taken more than a year for any arrests to be made, and on Monday three women are to go on trial in the capital, Harare, over the allegations which have shocked the country.

One alleged victim, who wished to remain anonymous, gave an account on national television in July of his experience which happened after he was offered a lift by a group of three women in Harare.

"One of the women threw water in my face and they injected me with something that gave me a strong sexual desire," he said.

"They stopped the car and made me have sex with each of them several times, using condoms.

"When they had finished they left me in the bush totally naked.

"Some people gathering grass helped me by calling the police, who took me to hospital to deal with the effects of this drug that I had been given, as the urge to have sex was still there."

The women due in court have been charged on 17 counts of aggravated indecent assault - as Zimbabwean law does not recognise the act of a woman raping a man.

They were detained earlier this month in the central town of Gweru, 275km (170 miles) south-west of Harare, after officers found 31 used condoms in the car that they were travelling in.

...

Always my gratuitous association...
Pathological, I know.

[_Drifting]

Jeffrey R. Holland

Through this suffering, Jesus redeemed the souls of all men, women, and children “that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.” In doing so, Christ “descended below all things”—including every kind of sickness, infirmity, and dark despair experienced by every mortal being—in order that He might “comprehend all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth.”

Simon, what do you believe Jeffrey is teaching us here, if it isn't that Christ physically suffered and felt everything that the human race has/will physically suffer and feel?

(I have underlined some of the words that I think are key)

[_Buffalo]

Jeffrey R. Holland

Through this suffering, Jesus redeemed the souls of all men, women, and children “that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.” In doing so, Christ “descended below all things”—including every kind of sickness, infirmity, and dark despair experienced by every mortal being—in order that He might “comprehend all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth.”

Simon, what do you believe Jeffrey is teaching us here, if it isn't that Christ physically suffered and felt everything that the human race has/will physically suffer and feel?

(I have underlined some of the words that I think are key)

Simon doesn't believe a word that Holland taught.

[Guest]

Jeffrey R. Holland

Through this suffering, Jesus redeemed the souls of all men, women, and children “that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.” In doing so, Christ “descended below all things”—including every kind of sickness, infirmity, and dark despair experienced by every mortal being—in order that He might “comprehend all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth.”

Simon, do you believe Jeff Holland has the faculty with respect to the English language to communicate his thoughts effectively to other English speaking people?

A yes or no answer will do.

Simon, do you believe Jeff Holland said the statement quoted above?

A yes or no answer will do, but if it is no, please explain why LDS Inc publishes this statement on its website.

Simon, do you believe Jeff Holland, as evidenced by this statement, was teaching that Jesus suffered "every kind of sickness, infirmity, and dark despair experienced by every mortal being—in order that He might 'comprehend all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth'”?

A yes or no answer will do.

Simon, since there is no record of Jesus having been impaled on a pole through the rectum up into the chest cavity and left to slowly bleed to death over a 12-18 hour period, do you think Jesus has experienced that infirmity and dark despair that some mortals have experienced? (Note, Jesus has all the mortal parts to have experienced such an impaling as took place in Transylvania under the terror of the reign of Vlad the Impaler.)

A yes or no answer will do.

Simon, do you think that since Jesus does not have a vagina that there need be also a female Redeemer to complete the Redemption for female mortals?

A yes or no answer will do.