The Dead

[_just me]

Good morning jo! It is going to take me a while to digest your most recent post. I don't want just skim and post on the fly. It may take me a day to build my response.

[_Jersey Girl]

jo1952

Sometimes we try to kill ourselves - but if He's not ready for us to leave, He intervenes. Other times He let's us kill ourselves.

What are some of the reasons that we try to kill ourselves?

[_jo1952]

jo1952,

Some enlightened souls have said that separation from God is an illusion. Mormons teach that we are here to live worthily so we may return to God's presence. Thoughts?

Hi Hades!

What an awesome comment!!

In many ways I could see where we can conclude that our separation from God IS an illusion while also supporting LDS teachings.

I already do not believe that the Creation is the "real" thing. The real thing is the spiritual realm. The "illusion" could be described as the "veil". In order for us to return to God's presence, our spiritual being needs to be prepared to withstand His presence again. What has changed from our previous state of existence and being is that our spirit now dwells in a physical body of flesh, which mortal shell would melt should the veil be removed before our spirit has become aware or awakened again, at which time the illusion would disappear.

What is not included in your words about some enlightened souls is the concept that degrees of enlightenment (referred to by the LDS as degrees of glory or levels of heaven) are not all equal. In order to be able to return to the level of enlightenment where God lives (i.e., the Celestial Kingdom), a resurrected being who now has been added upon with a glorified immortal body, needs to hold the amount of Light within himself which is required for each particular level of enlightment (Light and Truth) emininating from any particular portion of Heaven.

Regards,

jo

[_jo1952]

Good morning jo! It is going to take me a while to digest your most recent post. I don't want just skim and post on the fly. It may take me a day to build my response.

Hi Just Me,

Take your time. I literally worked all through the night and most of the morning putting together my post to you.

Love,

jo

[_just me]

Good morning jo! It is going to take me a while to digest your most recent post. I don't want just skim and post on the fly. It may take me a day to build my response.

Hi Just Me,

Take your time. I literally worked all through the night and most of the morning putting together my post to you.

Love,

jo

Sounds like you'll be needing a nap!!!

[_jo1952]

jo1952

Sometimes we try to kill ourselves - but if He's not ready for us to leave, He intervenes. Other times He let's us kill ourselves.

What are some of the reasons that we try to kill ourselves?

Hi Jersey Girl,

I love your Pug picture!! What a cutey!!

Oh my, I could list a lot of reasons, which include physical, mental, and even spiritual sources. Fear, loss, pain (either and/or physical and emotional), illness - again either and/or physical and emotional, mental illness, despair, loss of worldly things (money, jobs, homes). Loss of loved ones, depression both situational and/or clinical. Feelings of abandonment, including feeling abandoned by God. So many things can trigger the drastic action of suicide.

Why do you ask? Also, I doubt I have listed anything you haven't already thought could answer your question.

Best regards,

jo

[_jo1952]

Sounds like you'll be needing a nap!!!

Hi Just Me!

As a matter of fact that is where I am headed right now.

Talk to you soon.

Love,

jo

[_Jersey Girl]

jo

Hi Jersey Girl,

I love your Pug picture!! What a cutey!!

Oh my, I could list a lot of reasons, which include physical, mental, and even spiritual sources. Fear, loss, pain (either and/or physical and emotional), illness - again either and/or physical and emotional, mental illness, despair, loss of worldly things (money, jobs, homes). Loss of loved ones, depression both situational and/or clinical. Feelings of abandonment, including feeling abandoned by God. So many things can trigger the drastic action of suicide.

Why do you ask? Also, I doubt I have listed anything you haven't already thought could answer your question.

Best regards,

jo

I asked to try to get some sense of where you're coming from, what you think and how you evaluate issues.

[_keithb]

In any fictional story, especially those involving supernatural beings or powers, you can always find ways to short circuit the plot. Often artificial limitations are contrived to prevent this, but other times audiences are just expected to ignore the loophole as part of the willing suspension of disbelief. In other words, the ultimate reason that characters in stories don't act realistically, taking advantage of all powers and loopholes available to them, is because then there would be no story.

The reason we don't have as many kids as possible and then drown them all before the age of accountability is because that doctrine was not invented as a way to maximize the number of exalted souls. It was invented to give comfort to the surviving loved ones. That's all religion is--the stories we tell ourselves to impose illusions of justice on an existence that is far from just.

We don't drown our young children for the same reason that Marty McFly and Doctor Who never seem to make more efficient and effective use of time travel, and Jedis never seem to grasp the full potential of the Force (or even lightsabers). Because it would wreck the story.

:)

[_keithb]

I believe God knows when we are going to die.

I also believe that no matter what choices people make or don't make, that the results of those decisions or non-decisions are used to accomplish God's purposes. Thus, no action or non-action is wasted; God's purpose and desire is that we all be able to return to Him. Without taking away anyone's free will, He deals with the results of our choices and uses them for His purposes.

However, He will not force you to accept His Son AS your Savior, nor will He force you to love Him or His Son; this is all up to you to decide.

Does this help?

Best regards,

jo

It doesn't really help.

I think that it does little to comfort the families who have lost children to horrible accidents, mothers who have lost children to starvation, etc. I, being a somewhat amoral being by my own estimation, would help a child if I had the power to help and saw that child starving to death or being murdered. I have a hard time conceiving of a "moral", omnipotent being that wouldn't do the same.

And, if such a being does exist, I see no reason why it would be moral for me to worship that being and hold that being up as the highest example of morality in the universe.