Phelps: An Untrustworthy Scalawag

[_kairos]

anymore skids marks on brother phelps' backside and he will qualify him for the wily coyote look- a -like contest!

dj -your scholarship is outstanding!

[_Darth J]

Another fairly recent event where anti-Mormons tried to make heyday of an LDS leader's statement was when Gordon B. Hinckley gave an interview to Time magazine in 1997. In that interview, he was asked the following:

Q: Just another related question that comes up is the statements in the King Follet discourse by the Prophet.

A: Yeah

Q: ...about that, God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?

A: I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it.

As I mentioned in another thread, FAIR righteously rushed to President Hinckley's defense to explain that Time had misquoted him. See: http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Does_Presid ... trine.html

(Note: of course, the language that FAIR says was omitted makes President Hinckley look even more disingenuous, but never mind that right now.)

In any event, why should the Church have to explain itself to the likes of Time magazine, which was voluntarily interviewing the current President of the Church? Moreover, why should the Church ever have to explain anything to anyone?

Who put this idea out there that Mormons believe in a multiplicity of Gods who progress through the eternities from mortality to divinity?

Perhaps it is because, much like "Praise to the Man," a hymn that has no real relationship to Joseph Smith, another song made it in the hymnal that has become popular in certain circles, but is completely independent of---and unrelated to---anything Joseph Smith ever said. That song is hymn #284, "If You Could Hie to Kolob."

Completely independent of, and in no way whatsoever related to, anything that Joseph Smith ever said or claimed, somebody wrote a hymn talking about never being able to find the generation where gods began to be. And who would dare to compose such a thing, and give the impression that it was in some tangential way related to the theology that Joseph Smith eventually professed?

Yes, it was again William Wines Phelps.

It's always Phelps.

[_Runtu]

He's the Newman to Mormonism's Jerry Seinfeld.

Maybe there's more to Phelps than meets the eye.

No, there's less.

[_just me]

Excellent thread. Thank you for alerting us to the apostate actions of William.

[_Darth J]

Some time ago, the Church was compelled to issue a press release explaining how to approach Mormon doctrine. Among the comments made by the anonymous author(s) is the following:

Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.

It is well established that it is impossible to determine what, if anything, the LDS Church officially teaches unless you are an active, believing Latter-day Saint, which is why they all uniformly agree what "official doctrine" means. Nevertheless, how could anyone get the ludicrous impression that the Church in any way gives a crap where the Garden of Eden was precisely located?

Some historical background may help before we explain how a notorious rascal misled the world about what the Church believes. The Church owns property in Spring Hill, Missouri, where it intends to build a temple one of these days. This prospective temple will apparently be known as "the Adam-ondi-Ahman" temple. The Church explains that:

The valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman was revealed to Joseph Smith to be the place where Adam blessed his posterity after being driven from the Garden of Eden.

The Encyclopedia of Mormonism, which is not an official publication of the Church, but merely an encyclopedia prepared by a board at an LDS Church-owned university working closely with Church officials, and hosted on the internet by that same church-owned university, explains that:

The Prophet's revelations indicated several things about the area: (1) the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County, Missouri, and after Adam was expelled from the garden, he went north to Adam-ondi-Ahman; (2) three years before Adam's death, he gathered the righteous of his posterity to Adam-ondi-Ahman and bestowed upon them his last blessing; (3) this site would be the location of a future meeting of the Lord with Adam and the Saints, as spoken of by the prophet Daniel.

And Adam-ondi-Ahman is the subject of Section 116 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

And then you have statements in the historical record like these:

Wilford Woodruff gave an account of President Brigham Young saying that "Joseph, the Prophet, told me that the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri. When Adam was driven out he went to the place we now call Adam-ondi-Ahman, Daviess County, Missouri. There he built an altar and offered sacrifices."

Orson Pratt defined the words Adam-ondi-Ahman from the Adamic language as, "valley of God, where Adam dwelt."

Or you can learn about Adam-ondi-Ahman being the place Adam went after being kicked out of the Garden of Eden by taking a look at The Joseph Smith Papers.

Joseph Fielding Smith, who had only the most rudimentary and vague notions about what the LDS Church may or may not teach, said:

This council in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman is to be of the greatest importance to this world. At that time there will be a transfer of authority from the usurper and impostor, Lucifer, to the rightful King, Jesus Christ. Judgment will be set and all who have held keys will make their reports and deliver their stewardships, as they shall be required.

In summary, we can clearly see that the LDS Church could not possibly care less what the precise location of the Garden of Eden may or may not be.







Where, then, did this idea come from that the Church really gives any particular importance to the precise location of the place where Adam lived and where Jesus Christ and all righteous Saints will meet together to usher in the end of the world?

If you've been following this thread, you can probably make an educated guess.

In a completely unrelated coincidence, having noting whatever to do with anything that the Prophet Joseph Smith ever said or did, William Wines Phelps composed hymn #49, "Adam-ondi-Ahman."

There is no evidence that anything that Joseph Smith ever said, wrote, did, suggested, implied, made a joke about, or worked on had any connection at all to W.W. Phelps going rogue and making up this hymn as a personal side project.

And now the modern Church has to correct the mistaken impressions that Phelps' ultra vires pet project created.

It's always Phelps.

That son of a bitch.

[_Kishkumen]

Epic thread. Love it.

[_CaliforniaKid]

There are now so many people under the bus that it's amazing it can move at all.

That reminds me.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Darth,

That post on Adam-ondi-Ahman was brilliant.

Thank you for your service in defending the gospel from the misrepresentations of notorious scalawags everywhere.

-Chris

[_brade]

[_CaliforniaKid]

LOL