Guilt and Denial

[_Buffalo]

Do you think Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, and other religious people who don't experience as much guilt as Mormons are more dangerous or more sociopathic than Mormons?

Let me put it this way: when we humans lose feelings of guilt for hurting others or if we lose feelings of remorse, then we are in danger of becoming a sociopathic society. And yes, as we become more of an eat, drink, be merry and screw others society, then we are in danger of losing our humanness and what it means to be humane. We become nothing but humanoids.

I notice you avoided answering the question completely.

[_Buffalo]

You should write a letter to your Stake President and ask if your light cotton activities should give you cause for guilty feelings.

No guilt feelings at all. And none on her part either. But such was NYC life in the 70's.

But if I were a hurtful person and caused the suffering of countless of people and felt no guilt...well....I would be a sociopath who depended only on god's mercy without changing my hurtful ways.

This is why you were never a Mormon.

[_why me]

Mormonism prevents psychopathic and sociopathic tendencies, who knew. Why Me, you'd best get back to Church before you inadvertently kill someone...

In my classes I sometimes mention psychopaths in pinstripe suits.

http://masksofsanity.blogspot.com/2009/ ... place.html

Such is life without guilt. And we see this more and more these days. We need to be thankful for guilt. Look what happens when it disappears from a person's life.

[_Runtu]

Let me put it this way: when we humans lose feelings of guilt for hurting others or if we lose feelings of remorse, then we are in danger of becoming a sociopathic society. And yes, as we become more of an eat, drink, be merry and screw others society, then we are in danger of losing our humanness and what it means to be humane. We become nothing but humanoids.

But the topic here is sexual guilt. You have said many times that you feel no guilt for things that I would have had to confess in the MTC. You might not feel guilt, but that's not what we were taught.

Let me give you an example. A friend of mine sat in a hot tub naked, with a girl once. They didn't do anything, didn't touch, didn't kiss (so, even less contact than your Mormon lay thing). In the MTC, the pressure to confess was intense, so he told the branch president about it. The branch president conferred with Salt Lake, and he was told that my friend would have to have a personal interview with an apostle to be allowed to remain on his mission. So, he spent 45 minutes with Bruce R. McConkie, who ripped him to shreds before finally saying that, as long as he wrote a letter to his bishop back home and confessed, he could still serve a mission.

This is what I mean by excessive guilt. Obviously, you felt that the church's teachings about chastity did not apply to sophisticated New Yorkers in the swinging 70s, but what you felt was not what we were taught.

[_why me]

Do you think Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, and other religious people who don't experience as much guilt as Mormons are more dangerous or more sociopathic than Mormons?

When I was a catholic boy I experienced guilt when I did something wrong. Then, I went to a priest and confessed my sins and I felt better. I also know that in protestantism, there was also guilt or remorse. Now, many churches stress remorse or guilt less. They have become feel good churches or cotton candy churches. But the catholic church still stress remorse because they want people to come to confession. No remorse, no confession.

[_Runtu]

When I was a catholic boy I experienced guilt when I did something wrong. Then, I went to a priest and confessed my sins and I felt better. I also know that in protestantism, there was also guilt or remorse. Now, many churches stress remorse or guilt less. They have become feel good churches or cotton candy churches. But the catholic church still stress remorse because they want people to come to confession. No remorse, no confession.

I wonder why Catholics experience significantly less guilt than Mormons. Is Catholicism a feel-good church?

[_why me]

Let me give you an example. A friend of mine sat in a hot tub naked, with a girl once. They didn't do anything, didn't touch, didn't kiss (so, even less contact than your Mormon lay thing). In the MTC, the pressure to confess was intense, so he told the branch president about it.

This brings back a great memory. I was in Utah in the early 80's. I went on a young adult trip to big bear. I sat in a hot tub with a real hottie in the group. We were alone together in our bathing suits. I had a hard time not looking at her breasts. But I did. We went out a few times and we were very much alike. No guilt but nothing happened either . But unfortunately, I had to go back to new york just when she invited me over to watch soap operas. Of course, I knew that we weren't going to watch soap operas. But off I went to New York...her name was debbie.

Sitting naked might have caused me a little guilt back then. But I am not sure if I would have confessed it to the bishop. But actually, I don't know if I would have felt guilty. But i wasn't that active either. And that matters a lot.

I am sure that your friend felt better when he confessed it and most likely he served well guilt free.

[_Themis]

I never said all apologists did I.

I never said you said all apologists. I'm just saying don't complain about all apologists based on something I did not say.

How am I not to get that when you say that.

This is what you said

Please don't complain about all apologists because of something I didn't say.

Asking me not to complain about all is easy to interpret that you are accusing me of complaining about all even though I said many.

Good 'nuff. It surely ain't about complaining about apologists and strawmen, huh?

I only said what my expereince has been. If you think I made a straw-man you are welcome to back it up. :)

[_Runtu]

This brings back a great memory. I was in Utah in the early 80's. I went on a young adult trip to big bear. I sat in a hot tub with a real hottie in the group. We were alone together in our bathing suits. I had a hard time not looking at her breasts. But I did. We went out a few times and we were very much alike. No guilt but nothing happened either . But unfortunately, I had to go back to new york just when she invited me over to watch soap operas. Of course, I knew that we weren't going to watch soap operas. But off I went to New York...her name was debbie.

Sitting naked might have caused me a little guilt back then. But I am not sure if I would have confessed it to the bishop. But actually, I don't know if I would have felt guilty. But i wasn't that active either. And that matters a lot.

I am sure that your friend felt better when he confessed it and most likely he served well guilt free.

So, then, you think it was right for him to feel guilt, but not for you. I'm confused.

My friend didn't feel guilty until he was told in the MTC to feel guilty. That's what we're talking about. Things that most people wouldn't feel guilty about are turned into the source of serious shame and guilt.

[_why me]

I wonder why Catholics experience significantly less guilt than Mormons. Is Catholicism a feel-good church?

Catholic guilt was very much alive in the catholic church. In fact, the catholic church was famous for guilt. But with repentance, all guilt is gone until one sins again.

Well, good guilt, healthy guilt, performs this same function for our souls. Physical health is good for our bodies in the same way as moral health is good for our souls. And moral health means doing good actions and avoiding evil actions. If our conscience is in good condition, it will register guilt when we commit, or toy with committing, evil actions. That guilt is a warning against performing or persisting in evil actions, because committing evil strains or breaks our friendship with God and damages our interior peace and integrity, just as a hot piece of metal will damage our skin and breathing smoke will damage our lungs. In this sense, the Bible’s and the Church’s warnings against sin are not the expressions of an angry and vindictive God. On the contrary, they are a sign of God’s infinite love; he knows that committing evil, even though it sometimes appears to give us a short term benefit, is destructive, both for ourselves and for others.

http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/ta ... olic-guilt


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_guilt