why me wrote:Catholic guilt was very much alive in the catholic church. In fact, the catholic church was famous for guilt. But with repentance, all guilt is gone until one sins again. Well, good guilt, healthy guilt, performs this same function for our souls. Physical health is good for our bodies in the same way as moral health is good for our souls. And moral health means doing good actions and avoiding evil actions. If our conscience is in good condition, it will register guilt when we commit, or toy with committing, evil actions. That guilt is a warning against performing or persisting in evil actions, because committing evil strains or breaks our friendship with God and damages our interior peace and integrity, just as a hot piece of metal will damage our skin and breathing smoke will damage our lungs. In this sense, the Bible’s and the Church’s warnings against sin are not the expressions of an angry and vindictive God. On the contrary, they are a sign of God’s infinite love; he knows that committing evil, even though it sometimes appears to give us a short term benefit, is destructive, both for ourselves and for others.
why me wrote:Catholic guilt was very much alive in the catholic church. In fact, the catholic church was famous for guilt. But with repentance, all guilt is gone until one sins again. Well, good guilt, healthy guilt, performs this same function for our souls. Physical health is good for our bodies in the same way as moral health is good for our souls. And moral health means doing good actions and avoiding evil actions. If our conscience is in good condition, it will register guilt when we commit, or toy with committing, evil actions. That guilt is a warning against performing or persisting in evil actions, because committing evil strains or breaks our friendship with God and damages our interior peace and integrity, just as a hot piece of metal will damage our skin and breathing smoke will damage our lungs. In this sense, the Bible’s and the Church’s warnings against sin are not the expressions of an angry and vindictive God. On the contrary, they are a sign of God’s infinite love; he knows that committing evil, even though it sometimes appears to give us a short term benefit, is destructive, both for ourselves and for others.
So, again, why do Catholics experience less guilt than Mormons?
In Catholicism Christ is at the centre. In Mormonism the requirement to do more is at the centre.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Are Utah Mormons feeling more guilty because of all that porn they view?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
just me wrote:Still waiting for the study that shows people benefit from guilt by becoming more loving and rely on god more. We already know that more guilt doesn't lead to better behavior.
I don't even know what you are talking about. I didn't say anything about any study. And I didn't say anything about "more guilt" whatever that is referring to...
She (and now me) is asking you to back-up what you said here
stemelbow wrote:
just me wrote:That's right! Fear and guilt MUST be used in order to get people to act properly. Without FEAR, GUILT and SHAME we would all just run around raping and killing one another.
So, we can all finally agree that the LDS church uses FEAR and GUILT to get people to be OBEDIENT so that they can get some kind of reward when they die...or at least they won't be punished.
Fear and guilt are normal feelings that all people feel at some poin tin this world. they are important in LDS thought because they help us see our weaknesses, rely upon God, subsequently teaching us to learn to love others, God and the very good that will bless people eternally. Its not as you claim.
Frankly I don't see how fear and guilt are going help in the areas you listed in any way and in fact I see them, if not as inhibiting all three of the things you mentioned at the very least stunting them. To see our weakness, rely on God, and love others out of guilt or fear is to do these things for our selves. Under fear and guilt we fear our weakness as a threat, see others as a task, we have to love them or we will lose something. Fear and guilt are only rudimentary deterrents. Kind of like the difference between not stealing because I may get caught and not stealing because it injures someone else. Fear and guilt leave one looking only at self, negative navel gazing, if a person really wants to do the things you list leave off those two and take up charity, patience and humility these will put your short comings in perspective and if applied to yourself will allow you to use your strong points.
café crema wrote:Frankly I don't see how fear and guilt are going help in the areas you listed in any way and in fact I see them, if not as inhibiting all three of the things you mentioned at the very least stunting them. To see our weakness, rely on God, and love others out of guilt or fear is to do these things for our selves. Under fear and guilt we fear our weakness as a threat, see others as a task, we have to love them or we will lose something. Fear and guilt are only rudimentary deterrents. Kind of like the difference between not stealing because I may get caught and not stealing because it injures someone else. Fear and guilt leave one looking only at self, negative navel gazing, if a person really wants to do the things you list leave off those two and take up charity, patience and humility these will put your short comings in perspective and if applied to yourself will allow you to use your strong points.
The study shows that guilt-based motivation has negligible impact on behavior. It is effective only in manufacturing more guilt.
Runtu wrote: So, again, why do Catholics experience less guilt than Mormons?
One must separate a devout catholic from attending church once a year at christmas catholic. As my link showed, guilt is good even for a catholic. But through repentance and attempting not to do it again, one feels clean and guilt free. There is no question that we are having less guilt in our societies but this is not exactly a good thing. In fact, it can be rather harmful. Do you think the greedy who brought the world economy to its knees feel guilt? Hardly. Do people on the board of companies feel guilt for laying off hundred of thousands of people. Hardly. And are people feeling guilty when they lack of empathy for the weak in society? Hardly.
The moral compass has changed through time. And we can see this in the younger generation.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:One must separate a devout catholic from attending church once a year at christmas catholic. As my link showed, guilt is good even for a catholic. But through repentance and attempting not to do it again, one feels clean and guilt free. There is no question that we are having less guilt in our societies but this is not exactly a good thing. In fact, it can be rather harmful. Do you think the greedy who brought the world economy to its knees feel guilt? Hardly. Do people on the board of companies feel guilt for laying off hundred of thousands of people. Hardly. And are people feeling guilty when they lack of empathy for the weak in society? Hardly.
The moral compass has changed through time. And we can see this in the younger generation.
I'm still puzzled. Mormons are taught to feel guilt that you tell us we shouldn't feel guilty about. Doesn't that suggest that you agree that there's a lot of unnecessary guilt among Mormons?
Runtu wrote: So, again, why do Catholics experience less guilt than Mormons?
One must separate a devout catholic from attending church once a year at christmas catholic.
Well if you are going to sort out "less active" Catholics to arrive at a correct guilt experience then you would have to perform the same operation on LDS members, which leaves it at a wash.
café crema wrote:Well if you are going to sort out "less active" Catholics to arrive at a correct guilt experience then you would have to perform the same operation on LDS members, which leaves it at a wash.
