café crema wrote:Frankly I don't see how fear and guilt are going help in the areas you listed in any way and in fact I see them, if not as inhibiting all three of the things you mentioned at the very least stunting them. To see our weakness, rely on God, and love others out of guilt or fear is to do these things for our selves. Under fear and guilt we fear our weakness as a threat, see others as a task, we have to love them or we will lose something. Fear and guilt are only rudimentary deterrents. Kind of like the difference between not stealing because I may get caught and not stealing because it injures someone else. Fear and guilt leave one looking only at self, negative navel gazing, if a person really wants to do the things you list leave off those two and take up charity, patience and humility these will put your short comings in perspective and if applied to yourself will allow you to use your strong points.
The study shows that guilt-based motivation has negligible impact on behavior. It is effective only in manufacturing more guilt.
I've found the same with my kids, though I can't say I've never "guilted" them :)
The chief freedom necessary to human happiness is freedom from the guilt and destructive consequence of transgression. Our Lord specifically empowered his ambassadors to dispense God's forgiveness and absolution.
Confessing personal sins under the seal of secrecy to another human being is the surest way of actually coming to grips with them. Avoidance and repression are so easy where a man is his own judge and jury. It is extremely difficult to be deeply and objectively truthful with one's own failings. The penitent knows he is confessing to God through his agent, and he receives in return a valid assurance of God's pardon. Only an absolving priesthood can grant such real remission of guilt, and for this there is a deep craving in the human heart.
The sacrament of penance is truly a great blessing, for unless a man is free from his sins, all other freedoms are but ornaments on the gown of slavery. From beyond the human frontier, then, through the instrumentality of the priest, when the requirements of contrition and confession have been met, and the penance or prayers have been assigned in satisfaction of the demands of divine justice, then come the emancipating words: "I absolve thee from thy sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Thus it is that absolution is received, the life of God restored to the soul, and innumerable aids of actual grace bestowed.
Such deep, dynamic freedom of forgiveness, which encourages and warms a man's life like the light of the sun, comes only through captivity to God's truth, which is found in its fullness only in that one Church which he himself founded, who said: "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed" (John 8:34-36).
This excerpt is taken from One Shepherd, One Flock, originally published by Sheed and Ward in 1956.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/why-do-we-need-the-churchs-rules-when-our-conscience-tells-us-what-is-right-and-wrong
And then we have this:
Confession: The Soul’s Release
The chief freedom necessary to human happiness is freedom from the guilt and destructive consequence of transgression. Our Lord specifically empowered his ambassadors to dispense God's forgiveness and absolution.
Confessing personal sins under the seal of secrecy to another human being is the surest way of actually coming to grips with them. Avoidance and repression are so easy where a man is his own judge and jury. It is extremely difficult to be deeply and objectively truthful with one's own failings. The penitent knows he is confessing to God through his agent, and he receives in return a valid assurance of God's pardon. Only an absolving priesthood can grant such real remission of guilt, and for this there is a deep craving in the human heart.
The sacrament of penance is truly a great blessing, for unless a man is free from his sins, all other freedoms are but ornaments on the gown of slavery. From beyond the human frontier, then, through the instrumentality of the priest, when the requirements of contrition and confession have been met, and the penance or prayers have been assigned in satisfaction of the demands of divine justice, then come the emancipating words: "I absolve thee from thy sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Thus it is that absolution is received, the life of God restored to the soul, and innumerable aids of actual grace bestowed.
Such deep, dynamic freedom of forgiveness, which encourages and warms a man's life like the light of the sun, comes only through captivity to God's truth, which is found in its fullness only in that one Church which he himself founded, who said: "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed" (John 8:34-36).
This excerpt is taken from One Shepherd, One Flock, originally published by Sheed and Ward in 1956.
Runtu wrote: I'm still puzzled. Mormons are taught to feel guilt that you tell us we shouldn't feel guilty about. Doesn't that suggest that you agree that there's a lot of unnecessary guilt among Mormons?
Like I said, guilt is a part of our human nature. It shouldn't have to be taught. It is ingrained within us.
When we have a lack of guilt, we can do terrible things and feel no remorse. People are certainly downplaying guilt these days because it causes a person to feel bad and perhaps Mormons feel more guilt. That may be so. But all Mormons should know that through repentance, one is free from guilt. Mormons know the word of god very well. And this has much to do with guilt for doing wrong. Guilt can act as a moral compass for all of us.
But Mormons also know about repentance.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/why-do-we-need-the-churchs-rules-when-our-conscience-tells-us-what-is-right-and-wrong
And then we have this:
Confession: The Soul’s Release
The chief freedom necessary to human happiness is freedom from the guilt and destructive consequence of transgression. Our Lord specifically empowered his ambassadors to dispense God's forgiveness and absolution.
Confessing personal sins under the seal of secrecy to another human being is the surest way of actually coming to grips with them. Avoidance and repression are so easy where a man is his own judge and jury. It is extremely difficult to be deeply and objectively truthful with one's own failings. The penitent knows he is confessing to God through his agent, and he receives in return a valid assurance of God's pardon. Only an absolving priesthood can grant such real remission of guilt, and for this there is a deep craving in the human heart.
The sacrament of penance is truly a great blessing, for unless a man is free from his sins, all other freedoms are but ornaments on the gown of slavery. From beyond the human frontier, then, through the instrumentality of the priest, [b]when the requirements of contrition and confession have been met, and the penance or prayers have been assigned in satisfaction of the demands of divine justice, then come the emancipating words: "I absolve thee from thy sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Thus it is that absolution is received, the life of God restored to the soul, and innumerable aids of actual grace bestowed.
Such deep, dynamic freedom of forgiveness, which encourages and warms a man's life like the light of the sun, comes only through captivity to God's truth, which is found in its fullness only in that one Church which he himself founded, who said: "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed" (John 8:34-36).
This excerpt is taken from One Shepherd, One Flock, originally published by Sheed and Ward in 1956.[/b]
So, the Catholic church is better at forgiveness than the Mormon church?
Yes, particularly in the area of contrition, there is a concept of imperfect contrition. Imperfect contrition is one that is self motivated, fear of hell for instance, but it is still considered a "true and a profitable sorrow" because it is still a step in the right direction, it is a willingness on the part of the penitent to move forward. If you are willing to come forward and confess, forgiveness it there, along with penance. Ideally penance is not punishment but an exercise to help you move beyond your failures, something tailored to your situation and to help you reflect.
The LDS "repentance process" I've seen described is nothing that I've ever lived through, while it make work for LDS coming from where I do, I just don't see how it can.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
café crema wrote: Yes, particularly in the area of contrition, there is a concept of imperfect contrition. Imperfect contrition is one that is self motivated, fear of hell for instance, but it is still considered a "true and a profitable sorrow" because it is still a step in the right direction, it is a willingness on the part of the penitent to move forward. If you are willing to come forward and confess, forgiveness it there, along with penance. Ideally penance is not punishment but an exercise to help you move beyond your failures, something tailored to your situation and to help you reflect.
The LDS "repentance process" I've seen described is nothing that I've ever lived through, while it make work for LDS coming from where I do, I just don't see how it can.
Actually, it is the same for the LDS. However, for more serious sins of a sexual nature, the catholic church is much more lenient.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote: In my classes I sometimes mention psychopaths in pinstripe suits.
Never mentioned this in all these years, his persona is evolving.
Did you read the link? It is not a new concept at all. In fact, there was a book published on this a few years ago that got a lot of play in the US and other media.
You can also read the comments section below the article.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote: In my classes I sometimes mention psychopaths in pinstripe suits.
café crema wrote:Never mentioned this in all these years, his persona is evolving.
Did you read the link? It is not a new concept at all. In fact, there was a book published on this a few years ago that got a lot of play in the US and other media.