The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2011

[_RayAgostini]

Ray:

Have you re-joined the Mormon church yet and become a Mormon yourself? If not, why not?

Is there a reason I should? Being a black and white thinker, I can see why you'd pose this ridiculous question.

You like Japanese, and especially Japanese women? Have you taken up Japanese citizenship?

[_Dr. Shades]

Is there a reason I should? Being a black and white thinker, I can see why you'd pose this ridiculous question.

If you haven't, then please tell us just what you feel is lacking about Mormons that you don't wish to become one of them.

You like Japanese, and especially Japanese women? Have you taken up Japanese citizenship?

You don't see me bashing on non-Japanese things, do you? You don't see me going on jihads against everything non-Japanese or calling everyone whose not Japanese "non-objective," do you?

So answer my question, please.

[_sock puppet]

Ah, first impressions. So deceptive, aren't they?

Not at all. You’ve been here for 18 months, and the longer you stay, the more negative you’ll become. You’ve already shown that.

Are you equating negativity with lack of intelligence?

If I do it would be justified, given what Mormonism has exacted from me and my family for generations.

They were forced to join? What has Mormonism “extracted” from you and your family for “generations”. Even so, you’re going to keep bitching about it until the day you die?

You have your jihad 'til death, so perhaps I have mine. No, they joined due to fear mongering. It's why we buy insurance policies too. Only JSJr can't deliver the coverage he and his organization are still being paid premiums for. Mormonism extracted two years of my life, it extracted any semblance of normalcy from my life until I was age 26.

Maybe. Maybe I'm just trying to get dew off of yet believers' eyes so that they can open them and take a look at what they are really marching in lockstep and goose-stepping to. Maybe this 'mission' for truth on MDB is my own-self imposed penitence for having misled investigators and other people while I was on a Mormon mission.

Have you sought their feelings on the matter, those investigators you “misled”? Have they been in constant misery since you gave them the 1st discussion, or maybe joined?

One of my "converts" I have contacted since my apostasy. I yet had her address. I explained why I had apostatized, and apologized for my role in introducing her to Mormonism. She too had apostatized as well, but will not have contact with me because I remind her of the time she was Mormon.

Is this something that might concern Aung San Suu Kyi.

Good Lord, man, don't tell me she's also had to suffer being a Mormon too. I certainly hope it would not be of concern to her.

[_RayAgostini]

If you haven't, then please tell us just what you feel is lacking about Mormons that you don't wish to become one of them.

You'd just love that, because that's the sort of drama that makes your board tick. Yes, I have serious reservations, but I'm not going to voice them here anymore, because there's enough "piling on" happening here, and I'm not going to feed that.

You don't see me bashing on non-Japanese things, do you? You don't see me going on jihads against everything non-Japanese or calling everyone whose not Japanese "non-objective," do you?

A very ironical statement, which actually sustains my point.

[_RayAgostini]

Are you equating negativity with lack of intelligence

.

I did the opposite, actually.

You have your jihad 'til death, so perhaps I have mine. No, they joined due to fear mongering. It's why we buy insurance policies too. Only JSJr can't deliver the coverage he and his organization are still being paid premiums for. Mormonism extracted two years of my life, it extracted any semblance of normalcy from my life until I was age 26…..Maybe. Maybe I'm just trying to get dew off of yet believers' eyes so that they can open them and take a look at what they are really marching in lockstep and goose-stepping to. Maybe this 'mission' for truth on MDB is my own-self imposed penitence for having misled investigators and other people while I was on a Mormon mission.

Or maybe you just need to keep convincing yourself you made the right decision. Or maybe you just like an audience. You left at 26? How old are you now?

Smell the roses. Not everyone needs to be heroically rescued as per your “mission”. Think of something more positive you can contribute to the world. That would the best thing you can do before you go to the place from which no one returns.

One of my "converts" I have contacted since my apostasy. I yet had her address. I explained why I had apostatized, and apologized for my role in introducing her to Mormonism. She too had apostatized as well, but will not have contact with me because I remind her of the time she was Mormon.

Misery needs company, I suppose.

[_Dr. Shades]

If you haven't, then please tell us just what you feel is lacking about Mormons that you don't wish to become one of them.

You'd just love that, because that's the sort of drama that makes your board tick.

No, I'm sincerely curious just what it is that separates you from those whom you despise.

Yes, I have serious reservations, but I'm not going to voice them here anymore, because there's enough "piling on" happening here, and I'm not going to feed that.

So you agree with many of us here that Mormonism is defective in some way.

You are in league with us. You are our brother, and we yours.

You don't see me bashing on non-Japanese things, do you? You don't see me going on jihads against everything non-Japanese or calling everyone whose not Japanese "non-objective," do you?

A very ironical statement, which actually sustains my point.

How so? Please explain.

[_RayAgostini]

No, I'm sincerely curious just what it is that separates you from those whom you despise.

I don’t despise people. I despise certain ideas. I have many Muslim friends, but I’d never support some of their beliefs. The criticism of Mormonism here has become unbalanced, and that is what I “despise”. Just take a look at how many Mormons have exited your board. That’s not the way to carry on dialogue, and that’s why I said you now have an “echo-chamber”. The same eventually happened on FAIR turned MAD turned MDDB. I left them, even though I once strongly supported them. They became an “echo-chamber”, just like this board has now become. They banish critics, and the posters here eventually run defenders off the board, and not by what I’d call “reasoned argument”; in some cases it’s a hatred of anything Mormon, and it’s very obvious.

So you agree with many of us here that Mormonism is defective in some way.

You are in league with us. You are our brother, and we yours.

I’m not in “league” with anyone, defender or critic. We share some ideas and concerns, perhaps many, but that doesn’t make us “brothers in arms”. You’re not going to get a thing through to “the Church” by onslaught.

How so? Please explain.

You like Japanese? Do you like what they did during the Second World War to prisoners of war? You can like “a people”, or even a religion, and you can also dislike some of their practices without feeling the need to constantly bash them.

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

OO, the Ray A show is on!

[_Dr. Shades]

Ray:

Please tell me what I should do in order for this board to become more to your liking.

[_Drifting]

Agnostic theism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes the proposition at least one deity exists is true, but per agnosticism also believes that this proposition is unknown or inherently unknowable. The agnostic theist may also or alternatively be agnostic regarding the properties of the god(s) they believe in…..The classical philosophical understanding of knowledge is that knowledge is justified true belief. By this definition, it is reasonable to assert that one may hold a belief, and that belief may be true, without asserting that one knows it....Christian Agnostics (distinct from a Christian who is agnostic) practice a distinct form of agnosticism that applies only to the properties of God. They hold that it is difficult or impossible to be sure of anything beyond the basic tenets of the Christian faith. They believe that God exists, that Jesus has a special relationship with him and is in some way divine, that God should be worshiped and that humans should be compassionate toward one another. This belief system has deep roots in Judaism and the early days of the Church.

This probably sums up Rays' position.
Personally I'm somewhere between this and atheism.
I've underlined the bit I think Ray may struggle with, based on some of his dialogue with posters here.