Blacks weren't allowed to pray in church

[_ldsfaqs]

Anyway, I don't expect all you ignorant anti-Mormons to understand. You prefer your drive-by truth judgments rather than really understanding God's truths, history, etc. I know because I was you briefly. Willingly stupid to believe the lie that the Church must have been racist. Judging it according to modern social convention and the prejudices of youth, rather than actual truth and fact.

Does the racial profile of the 12 Apostles match the racial profile of the membership? If not, why not?

Since when was spiritual and intellectual preparedness based on "Affirmative Action"???
Do you think blacks or other races should go to college over whites or otherwise who are actually more qualified, but are denied simply so that college can fill their race quota, and then the entire society is dumbed down because we get more stupid people running the country?

In fact, affirmative action can be said to be the single more contributing factor to our current problems in the country. The best and brightest of society aren't the ones promoted as much, and we get absolute idiots in power, and they make idiot decisions.

Further, the simple reason why there are no "dark" Apostles yet is simply because that's simply who the current Apostles most know, and who are the most prepared. Those called are who the Lord calls. Someone in China is not going to be called if they are entirely unprepared and unschooled in the FOUNDATION of the system.

[_Darth J]

Trying to reason with some people here is a total waste of time. Continue with your mission of faith-destruction, Darth. Let that be your legacy to humanity. You most likely will not believe me when I say I've been down the very path you are now treading, and in my view you're a total amateur. Continue to spread your "disease germs" of unbelief, but don't be very surprised when karma bites you in the ass, and you beg for mercy. Then, you will look around for someone, anyone, to save you, and my only hope is that in that day God will have mercy on your blind and benighted soul.

And of course you're going to mock this, too, like you mock anything and everything from "the believers". "Stardom" here has totally corrupted you, because you think you can spin some logic together that overrides far more important things in life.

I really don't know why you want to convince so many people out of Mormonism, except to justify yourself. It's a very selfish endeavour.

Last of all, thanks to Dr. Shades for having his dream come true, by creating a board that encourages unbelief, not only in Mormonism, but in God himself. I am convinced that this was his goal from the beginning. Now he can go to sleep, to the sound of one hand clapping.

The other day, I read a recent prophecy by Warren Jeffs where he said that Salt Lake City is going to be destroyed by a volcano.

[_ldsfaqs]

I'm well aware that in places like Brazil that there was difficulty.....
Still doesn't change the fact that in the rest of the world, blacks were still given the Priesthood and it wasn't much of a problem.

When and where were "blacks...given the Priesthood and it wasn't much of a problem."

Like I've already said..... Central/South America, the Islands, India, etc. etc. and all other colors in-between.
Lineage was determined by Patriarchal Blessing (revelation) and Family History work.

[_RayAgostini]

Trying to reason with some people here is a total waste of time. Continue with your mission of faith-destruction, Darth. Let that be your legacy to humanity. You most likely will not believe me when I say I've been down the very path you are now treading, and in my view you're a total amateur. Continue to spread your "disease germs" of unbelief, but don't be very surprised when karma bites you in the ass, and you beg for mercy. Then, you will look around for someone, anyone, to save you, and my only hope is that in that day God will have mercy on your blind and benighted soul.

And of course you're going to mock this, too, like you mock anything and everything from "the believers". "Stardom" here has totally corrupted you, because you think you can spin some logic together that overrides far more important things in life.

I really don't know why you want to convince so many people out of Mormonism, except to justify yourself. It's a very selfish endeavour.

Last of all, thanks to Dr. Shades for having his dream come true, by creating a board that encourages unbelief, not only in Mormonism, but in God himself. I am convinced that this was his goal from the beginning. Now he can go to sleep, to the sound of one hand clapping.

The other day, I read a recent prophecy by Warren Jeffs where he said that Salt Lake City is going to be destroyed by a volcano.

Like I said, you'll harden your heart. This will mean nothing to you.

Carry on. Be very wise in your own eyes.

[_Darth J]

Ray---

When I was a believing Latter-day Saint, did I have the right to tell people what I think about the Church?

Now that I am a not-believing Latter-day Saint, do I have the right to tell people what I think about the Church?

[_ldsfaqs]

Assuming the LDS Church is the successor church to the one Joseph Smith started, the Church has existed for 181 years. For 148 of those years, it taught substantive doctrine that black people are inferior to not just white people, but to everyone.

That is a "rare instance," is it?

That is simply a false statement..... It did not at all teach a doctrine that blacks were "inferior".
That is your drive-by anti-mormon glasses speaking, not the actual truth about the religion and it's people. Again, some statements cherry-picked from history by some individuals does not a racist religion or entire people make.

Do you think your the FIRST person to think this way about the Church?
I was just as stupid as you once, but I was so very wrong. So willing to believe the worst about the Church, instead of opening my actual eyes right in front of me, and studying the issue in greater depth. Only when I stopped looking at things like a child, one who sees quotes and then says "bad Mormonism", THEN I finally knew what the Church was actually like. Further, we I actually read MORE of it's history, in full, THEN I saw the whole truth, contrary to your using a little truth to tell great lies. Mormons and Mormonism despite some of it's human flaws, was ALWAYS against racism and slavery.

Believe me, if the Church was actually racist, after I restudied things properly and objectively like I should have done before, rather than prejudging the Church like you do, I wouldn't have re-converted to the Church. If they were racists, if Joseph actually was a pervert like I stupidly believed like you stupidly believe because of quote mining, I wouldn't have re-joined, and stayed faithful these last 20 years, years most of which I've dealth with idiots like you the entire time. I've seen and know your claims a million times over. Sorry, but they aren't the truth.

[_ldsfaqs]

Hey ALL....

For those of you posting the "First Presidency" statements supposedly debunking my statement, couple of problems.

1. Not a single statement from the Church actually states that blacks were "not valiant". That was the claim, and that is the truth. I'm well aware that some in the Church had that view, but some of them even clearly made known in your quotes that it was THEIR OPINION. All the Official Statement says is that the pre-mortal life has "something" to do with the ban. They didn't say what, why or how.

2. haa haa.... I once left the Church primarily for this issue, and Polygamy, do you people REALLY think you are telling and showing me anything I haven't seen before? Please.... spare me your arrogance and judgmentalism that I'm already well familiar with.

I've seen and learned things NONE of you have seen and learned. I know the actual whole truth, you do not. You pre-judge the Church. Big mistake.

Where can anyone read these sources of the whole actual truth other than what the Church itself consistently taught for a century and a half, Ldsfags?

Also, it is immaterial whether the First Presidency specified that Negroes were less valiant. The fact that they said, more than once, that it was a curse to be born a Negro because of things they did in the pre-mortal life is enough to establish the racist nature of Mormon doctrine----doctrines that have never been repudiated.

Problem with your judgment is that it could be said to "be a curse" to be born in a place poor, to never know God or good, etc. etc..... because of our pre-mortality. But anyone that knows the Gospel, which you don't, knows that God has a plan for those born under such a so-called 'curse'......

A "curse" isn't necessarily a bad thing like you believe. In fact, I seem to recall even some LDS statements on that subject, that the curse was actually for THEIR protection and the purposes of God, not because they were "evil" or some dumb thing in pre-mortality. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. There is a blessing here in the will of God, a love for his children that you are completely ignorant of. You lacking the intellect and the spirit to understand, simply can't understand why a black man would love this Church and Gospel, even with some imperfect past, while you wallow in your sin and arrogance toward Righteousness and Light in the world.

[_RayAgostini]

Ray---

When I was a believing Latter-day Saint, did I have the right to tell people what I think about the Church?

Now that I am a not-believing Latter-day Saint, do I have the right to tell people what I think about the Church?

Do it at your own peril. I'm telling you again, I have been down this path.

Learn to be more accepting and tolerant, and don't believe you know everything. There's a place for everyone. You criticise the Church for creating divisions, yet that's exactly what you're doing. It's your way, or the highway. How are you different?

[_Morley]

When and where were "blacks...given the Priesthood and it wasn't much of a problem."

Like I've already said..... Central/South America, the Islands, India, etc. etc. and all other colors in-between.
Lineage was determined by Patriarchal Blessing (revelation) and Family History work.

Just one race, Black Africans, weren't. Isn't it racism to exclude one race?

[_Morley]

Do it at your own peril. I'm telling you again, I have been down this path.

Learn to be more accepting and tolerant, and don't believe you know everything. There's a place for everyone. You criticise the Church for creating divisions, yet that's exactly what you're doing. It's your way, or the highway. How are you different?

Underlining mine.

Darth isn't saying he's the only way into the Celestial Kingdom.