Happy Valley Photo Essay

[_Jersey Girl]

Belmont

Why is that a nuclear meltdown?

I didn't use the phrase "nuclear meltdown", I believe Scratch used that phrase in one of his posts. If I had to try to second guess Scratch (and I don't say that I can) I would say that he was referring to the number of times DCP came back at the criticisms with no evidence of actually "hearing" the criticisms of his conduct.

Just my take, I could have said it better.

[_Simon Belmont]

Simon, what do you think DCP's intentions were in commenting? I.e., if he only had negative things to say, what was the value in his saying anything at all?

I don't know his intentions, and I don't think it it fair to speculate about them. You stated you read his comments and found them to be part of a "incredibly vicious gang-attack," and a "nuclear-grade meltdown."

Where are these comments? I've now read the entire 4 pages twice and can't find them.

Do you disagree that he was taking little jabs that render his contribution mediocre?

(Ex. his spelling correction)

As I said, his comments to have a little sarcasm in them. It seems unfair to me to expect DCP to be a perfect angel when he's constantly attacked no matter what he says.

[_Jersey Girl]

Belmont

As I said, his comments to have a little sarcasm in them. It seems unfair to me to expect DCP to be a perfect angel when he's constantly attacked no matter what he says.

What if what he says are thinly veiled attempts to disparage and demean others with whom he disagrees?

Look, Belmont, if his conduct on the Cafeteria didn't tell you what his true colors are, nothing will.

[_RockSlider]

So, Simon, was recreational TV watching on Sunday allowed in your home as you grew up? Do you allow your children to come home from church and turn on the TV?

What percentage of your ward do you believe have some form of restrictive TV watching in their home? Should we even mention restrictive TC/movie expectations for adults (i.e. do you watch R rated TC/Movies)

For DCP to imply to a non-lds reading public that the church does not influence restrictive TV watching on Sunday is an outright deception. Using the Tab's and GC as proofs was insulting

[_Doctor Scratch]

What was the value in what he said, Simon? What did you, personally, get out of it? I'm curious about this especially in light of the fact that, in one of your more sanctimonious recent moments, you blubbered that we should all try to "treat each other better."

[_Darth J]

For DCP to imply to a non-lds reading public that the church does not influence restrictive TV watching on Sunday is an outright deception. Using the Tab's and GC as proofs was insulting

Actually, the implication is that Mormons are allowed to watch TV on Sunday, as long as it is church-oriented programming. You notice that Peterson didn't mention watching the NFL, for example.

What Peterson and the rest of the tag-team are doing is showing their utter contempt for regular chapel Mormons and Mormon culture. "But, but, you're just talking about your own personal experiences, and it's just anecdotal." Yeah, no crap. And pretty much everyone who has grown up as a Mormon, or been around Mormons, has anecdotes like this. I have friends who were raised LDS and have lived in Utah their whole lives who drink and are totally inactive, but were horrified that I went shopping on Sundays, because of the way they were raised. Drinking was their way of being rebellious, but shopping on Sunday was still taboo. It is simply a cultural thing for some people to be restrictive about what you do on "the Sabbath."

We believe in worshiping God according to the dictates of our conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, unless you dare to make Mormons look quaint, folksy, or just ordinary people trying to combine a Disney-esque view of life with Joseph Smith's frontier tall tales. If you do that, then we will turn on our fellow Mormons and mock their experiences as surely as we will attack people who say not-faith-promoting things about our serious and academically sound belief in Hebrew tapir ranchers practicing New Testament Christianity in ancient Guatemala.

As much as Peterson and the Maxwellites would like to give the misleading impression that the more conservative Utah Mormons aren't sometimes a little uptight about what they can and can't do on Sunday, the Church does actively encourage restrictions on behavior that would be consistent with not watching TV on Sunday (unless it's the Tabernacle Choir or Conference!).

E.g.,

Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3, Lesson 29: Sabbath Observance

A young man has been working to get some of his nonmember friends interested in the gospel. One Sunday after church, they are all sitting around talking when one of the nonmembers suggests that they go to a movie. The LDS youth knows that he has been taught not to attend shows on Sunday. But he is also afraid that not going with his friends might offend them, and they would become more resistant to his efforts to get them interested in the Church.

• What should he do? (He should not go. Altering his standards will weaken his position as he seeks to interest his friends in the Church.)

Preparing for Exaltation: Teacher’s Manual, Lesson 28: Remember the Sabbath Day, to Keep It Holy

Things We Should Avoid on the Sabbath

Elder Ezra Taft Benson, then a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said: “It seems to me that the following should be avoided on the Sabbath: “Overworking and staying up late Saturday so that you are exhausted the next day. “Filling the Sabbath so full of extra meetings that there is no time for prayer, meditation, family fellowship, and counseling. “Doing gardening and odd jobs around the house. “Taking trips to canyons or resorts, visiting friends socially, joy riding, wasting time, and engaging in other amusements. … “Playing vigorously and going to movies. “Engaging in sports and hunting ‘wild animals’ which God made for the use of man only ‘in times of famine and excess of hunger.’ (See D&C 89:15.) … “Reading material that does not contribute to your spiritual uplift. “Shopping or supporting with your patronage businesses that operate on Sunday, such as grocery stores, supermarkets, restaurants, and service stations” (“Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy,” Ensign, May 1971, 6–7).


“Sabbath,” Family Home Evening Resource Book, (1997)

Ask your family to suggest ways to observe the Sabbath day.

Help them understand that a balance of rest, worship, and service is necessary to keep the Sabbath day holy. To determine whether a specific activity is appropriate, ask, “Does it bring me closer to my Heavenly Father?”

Read Doctrine and Covenants 59:12–13. Note the footnote on the word oblations in verse 12; oblations means “offerings, whether of time, talents, or means, in service of God and fellowman.”

Read the following quotation by President Spencer W. Kimball:

“The Sabbath is a holy day in which to do worthy and holy things. Abstinence from work and recreation is important, but insufficient. The Sabbath calls for constructive thoughts and acts, and if one merely lounges about doing nothing on the Sabbath, he is breaking it. To observe it, one will be on his knees in prayer, preparing lessons, studying the gospel, meditating, visiting the ill and distressed, writing letters to missionaries, taking a nap, reading wholesome material, and attending all the meetings of that day at which he is expected.” (“The Sabbath—A Delight,” Ensign, Jan. 1978, p. 4.)

List the three aspects of keeping the Sabbath day holy defined in these passages:

*

1. Rest from labors
*

2. Offerings of service
*

3. Worship

Considering the activities family members mentioned earlier as being appropriate for the Sabbath, have them list those and other Sabbath activities under each category—rest, service, and worship. You might include the following:

Eat light meals

Cook on Saturday

Clean on Saturday

Take a nap

Write letters to loved ones and missionaries

Visit family members

Visit a sick friend

Ponder the sacrament prayer more reverently

Ponder the mighty power and works of God

Read the scriptures

Try in every way to feel closer to Heavenly Father

It's too bad that Peterson isn't here to respond. Maybe I will just do it on his behalf:

"You are not being serious. There's nothing in any of this that precludes watching non-church-oriented TV on Sunday. The Church doesn't have the fundamentalist, legalistic teachings you try to impose on it. I suggest you read something or other by Blake Ostler if you want to understand what the Church's position is. Nobody has ever been summoned to a church court because he watched an NFL game after church, so that means the Church doesn't give any particular importance to it."

[_Simon Belmont]

What was the value in what he said, Simon? What did you, personally, get out of it? I'm curious about this especially in light of the fact that, in one of your more sanctimonious recent moments, you blubbered that we should all try to "treat each other better."

Everything DCP says has to have value?

If something DCP says does not have value, that equates to a nuclear-grade meltdown and a vicious gang-attack?

[_Doctor Scratch]

What did you like about Dan's comments, Simon? How did they contribute to your notion of "treating people better"?

[_Simon Belmont]

What did you like about Dan's comments, Simon? How did they contribute to your notion of "treating people better"?

I found the same value in his comments that I found in the other viewers comments: a different perspective/point of view/opinion. That's what the comments section is for.

So will you copy and paste one "vicious" or "nuclear-grade meltdown" comment that DCP made on the article? I keep reading the comments, and it seems that his are on par -- attitude wise -- with the majority of other's. I think, if you can't justify the "nuclear-grade meltdown" and "vicious" descriptors, you should retract them; it would be the honorable thing to do.

[_Dr. Shades]

All right, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I agree with much of what DCP wrote.

In my opinion, the article and captions painted life in Happy Valley with way too broad of a brush. "_____ is forbidden," "_____ must cease," etc. May have held true in his own family, but human beings are far too complex to always fit into such broad generalizations, Mormonism or no Mormonism.

If he had been careful enough to say that such was the norm in his own family, or even if he'd only said that such behaviors are ideal according Mormon teachings, I'd have no issue with any part of the photo essay.

Plus, if I was an outside observer, I would mistakenly conclude that Mormons never smile unless they're dressed up as Jesus.