just me wrote:Today at church we talked about The Judgement (yes, capital letters, folks). This was the Relief Society/P lesson.
So, basically, "ex-Mormons" are going to outer-darkness.
But, I was a wee bit confused. It could be that I am actually going to the Telestial Kingdom because I haven't actually denied anything I've felt before...I just interpret it differently than the LDS church would have me interpret my expereinces.
Ex-Mormon's are going to outer-darkness because they deny what they felt as members. They just can't leave the church alone!
That is what I learned. Oh, and that pretty much you have to be perfect to go to the CK.
Wow. That is quite a different interpretation of Outer Darkness than I've ever heard before. In everything I've read, and in all the times this was discussed when I was at church, the realm of Outer Darkness was associated with a very specific and drastic sin, that of denying the Holy Ghost.
Furthermore, it was always stressed that this was something completely different from leaving the church or losing your testimony or anything else. In other words it was not about just "denying" what you felt as a member, but an extreme kind of "denial" premised on a spiritual encounter beyond the experience of most people. Denying the Holy Ghost was not just something one could do by accident or omission, or by simply saying "I deny the holy ghost" or "the church isn't true." That was why the number of souls cast into Outer Darkness would be so few (the phrase I associate with the lessons I heard at church was "they can be counted on the fingers of one hand.")
I think your Relief Society teacher overstepped herself and taught a concept that is not actually a part of Mormon belief.
But maybe I'm wrong and Outer Darkness has recently been re-zoned.
Blixa, this is what I've heard, too. One has to have a witness of Jesus Christ that is absolutely undeniable. The best quote I've heard (I heard this in person) was from Tom Monson. He told this story about a man who'd gone inactive and was worried he was now a son of perdition. Monson told the guy, "John, you don't know enough to be a son of perdition".
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
Ok, I think my bishop would have disagreed, too. It wasn't actually the teacher who said it, but a class member who was speaking for her group (one group per kingdom). That was her interpretation of the scripture she was given that tells who goes to OD.
I was pretty surprised to hear her say "ex-mormon's" because I think that was pretty presumptious. She was definantly thinking that feeling the HG and then saying you didn't or whatever was considered denying the Holy Ghost.
ETA: When I told my bishop I no longer believed he actually asked me if I had ever seen God/Jesus. Since I haven't he does not believe I can be a SoP. I like to joke that a woman can't be a SoP anyway.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
In the good old days, it would have taken one obtaining a calling and election to then become a candidate for outer darkness. Seeing how the C&E is no longer a correlation approved topic, and seems to not be an option for the general membership, they are in a bit of a quandary of what in the world to do with all this outer darkness stuff. Well, ok, not really … apostates and ex-Mormons surely deserve it right?
In a sense, I'd actually like the church to believe this. It would mean they no longer believe that anyone who has left never really had a testimony to begin with. It's kind of hard to be a son of perdition and deny the holy ghost if you never had it to begin with.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
We should pause for a moment and consider the definition of outer darkness. Joseph Smith's God said it would be uncomfortable living there. But don't you think Joseph Smith's God would be just a little biased? Has Joseph Smith's God ever been to OD? Maybe the billions that reside there have been blogging about interior decorating and frosting for centuries. Maybe they figured out how to make light shine in the darkness. Ok, the Nephites couldn't figure it out when Jesus came, but they only got a day and a night and a day to figure something out. Maybe the folks in OD became alchemy experts! Maybe the men there wear skinny corduroys. Maybe the women there wear miniskirts! OMG, I so want to see that place.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
zeezrom wrote:We should pause for a moment and consider the definition of outer darkness. Joseph Smith's God said it would be uncomfortable living there. But don't you think Joseph Smith's God would be just a little biased? Has Joseph Smith's God ever been to OD? Maybe the billions that reside there have been blogging about interior decorating and frosting for centuries. Maybe they figured out how to make light shine in the darkness. Ok, the Nephites couldn't figure it out when Jesus came, but they only got a day and a night and a day to figure something out. Maybe the folks in OD became alchemy experts! Maybe the men there wear skinny corduroys. Maybe the women there wear miniskirts! OMG, I so want to see that place.
Actually the teaching was the "potters clay" … total dissolution, with all parts of your personal matter, and intelligence … broken down to its basic most units and returned to the pool for reuse. Thus, Mormon's own little version of reincarnation! Cool eh? we may well be composed of past failures.
zeezrom wrote:We should pause for a moment and consider the definition of outer darkness. Joseph Smith's God said it would be uncomfortable living there. But don't you think Joseph Smith's God would be just a little biased? Has Joseph Smith's God ever been to OD? Maybe the billions that reside there have been blogging about interior decorating and frosting for centuries. Maybe they figured out how to make light shine in the darkness. Ok, the Nephites couldn't figure it out when Jesus came, but they only got a day and a night and a day to figure something out. Maybe the folks in OD became alchemy experts! Maybe the men there wear skinny corduroys. Maybe the women there wear miniskirts! OMG, I so want to see that place.
I love everything about this post.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
I promise to help make outer darkness a wonderful place to live. We can all get along and love each other. Everyone can have sexual relations with each other. We will sing, dance, eat, and be merry! We will all have a wonderful time! We will rub our resurrected bodies together on one big giant dance floor as we dance naked!
When I formally left in the mid 1980s, I was told by a Stake President that, since I'd been married in the temple, there was a reasonable chance that I'd be a Son of Perdition. I realized it was his way of trying to scare me into staying.
just me wrote:Today at church we talked about The Judgement (yes, capital letters, folks). This was the Relief Society/P lesson.
So, basically, "ex-Mormons" are going to outer-darkness.
But, I was a wee bit confused. It could be that I am actually going to the Telestial Kingdom because I haven't actually denied anything I've felt before...I just interpret it differently than the LDS church would have me interpret my expereinces.
Ex-Mormon's are going to outer-darkness because they deny what they felt as members. They just can't leave the church alone!
That is what I learned. Oh, and that pretty much you have to be perfect to go to the CK.
Look, go to Outer-Darkness or the Telestial Kingdom. As you wish. Me, I'll be at IKEA.
:-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb