The God Delusion

[_Jersey Girl]

DocW,

Thanks for answering my questions. I have more.

What parts of the New Testament do you think EV Christians might be willing to admit are metaphorical?

What parts of the Old Testament do you think EV Christians might be willing to admit are metaphorical?

[_Equality]

Would you be so kind as to drill down on this thought a little more?

The reason why Dawkins’ book is so popular is that a lot of atheists identify a lot with what the book says. I’ve read and heard a lot of testimonies from atheists about how this book gave them a voice they didn’t have and/or inspired them to make their atheism known to others.

I think there is truth to this statement. At least, it comports with my own experience with The God Delusion, god is not Great, and The End of Faith. I read all three of those books after I had pretty much come to the conclusion, on my own, that I didn't believe in God anymore. I wasn't so much influenced by those books as I felt gratified that there were others who believed and felt as I did and were able to articulate eloquently the thoughts and feelings I was experiencing as I made my journey from rabid true believer to something of an agnostic atheist.

[_Hoops]

The you should read The End of Faith by Sam Harris.

Because in this book, that is exactly what Harris does.

And as Stak says, it isn't pretty.

Excellent! I will. Not for that alone, but I will.

(waiting for Christmas Kindle)

[_Jason Bourne]

Hoops

Any chance you scroll back up a few pages and answer a couple questions I asked you?
Thanks!

[_MrStakhanovite]

Hi DrW,

As a doubting Mormon, I don't think that Jason would be at much risk because of a less than perfect academic understanding of Christianity by the authors.

This is sort of like warning an American M1A2 main gunner that he needs a thorough understanding of the Iraqi T-72 his fire control computer is tracking before he pulls the trigger. (IMHO)

I think the LDS Church itself has a really poor understanding of historic Christianity itself, and ex-Mormons seem to absorb this understanding and carry it over with them when they make the jump from doubting Mormon to some form of unbelief.

Jeffrey R. Holland is a great example of this in his really poor talk about the Trinity. So I don’t see it as much as having a perfect understanding of the other side’s belief, but if you can’t even hit what you are aiming for, why bother firing at all?

[_Equality]

ex-Mormons seem to absorb this understanding and carry it over with them when they make the jump from doubting Mormon to some form of unbelief.

Painting with broad strokes there, though I can't say I would argue the point with you. It's probably accurate with respect to a large number of ex-Mormons. But I also know many who have left the church who have educated themselves quite thoroughly on religious history. I think that when one leaves Mormonism it is not uncommon for one to question everything one was taught to believe as a Mormon, and that would include what Mormonism has to say about historical Christianity.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Hi DrW,

As a doubting Mormon, I don't think that Jason would be at much risk because of a less than perfect academic understanding of Christianity by the authors.

This is sort of like warning an American M1A2 main gunner that he needs a thorough understanding of the Iraqi T-72 his fire control computer is tracking before he pulls the trigger. (IMHO)

I think the LDS Church itself has a really poor understanding of historic Christianity itself, and ex-Mormons seem to absorb this understanding and carry it over with them when they make the jump from doubting Mormon to some form of unbelief.

Jeffrey R. Holland is a great example of this in his really poor talk about the Trinity. So I don’t see it as much as having a perfect understanding of the other side’s belief, but if you can’t even hit what you are aiming for, why bother firing at all?

QFT.

I have seen several times posters say something to the effect of, "Well, the Mormon church debunks all Christian religions. Then all that's left to do in the midst of disaffection is debunk the LDS church's claims, then atheism is the logical conclusion." The unstated assumption seems to be that the LDS church's claims about Christianity are accurate, while its claims about itself are false. I can't recall meeting anyone who ever said something to the effect of, "Well, I started doubting LDS truth claims, so I also started doubting its claims about other churches as well."

[_Aristotle Smith]

ex-Mormons seem to absorb this understanding and carry it over with them when they make the jump from doubting Mormon to some form of unbelief.

Painting with broad strokes there, though I can't say I would argue the point with you. It's probably accurate with respect to a large number of ex-Mormons. But I also know many who have left the church who have educated themselves quite thoroughly on religious history. I think that when one leaves Mormonism it is not uncommon for one to question everything one was taught to believe as a Mormon, and that would include what Mormonism has to say about historical Christianity.

I can't recall ever seeing that. However, I would love to be disproven. This is probably hard to show (so don't think I'm doubting you until you prove otherwise), but do you have any links, sites, posts, names of people for whom the above applies?

[_DrW]

Hi DrW,

As a doubting Mormon, I don't think that Jason would be at much risk because of a less than perfect academic understanding of Christianity by the authors.

This is sort of like warning an American M1A2 main gunner that he needs a thorough understanding of the Iraqi T-72 his fire control computer is tracking before he pulls the trigger. (IMHO)

I think the LDS Church itself has a really poor understanding of historic Christianity itself, and ex-Mormons seem to absorb this understanding and carry it over with them when they make the jump from doubting Mormon to some form of unbelief.

Jeffrey R. Holland is a great example of this in his really poor talk about the Trinity. So I don’t see it as much as having a perfect understanding of the other side’s belief, but if you can’t even hit what you are aiming for, why bother firing at all?

Stak,

You, my dear friend, have obviously never seen an M1A2 Abrams mix it up with a T-72 (or a whole platoon of T-72s for that matter - and I say this with all due respect to Russian technology in main battle tanks.)

As for Mormon understanding of Christianity, I can't argue with you. IMHO, it pretty much boils down to unfounded belief in supernatural religion vs. understanding of evidence based natural science.

As in the tank analogy, one does not need to know the details of the supernatural Abrahamic religions, or their variants such as Mormonism, to understand that they all make worthwhile targets (as it were).

[_Equality]

ex-Mormons seem to absorb this understanding and carry it over with them when they make the jump from doubting Mormon to some form of unbelief.

Painting with broad strokes there, though I can't say I would argue the point with you. It's probably accurate with respect to a large number of ex-Mormons. But I also know many who have left the church who have educated themselves quite thoroughly on religious history. I think that when one leaves Mormonism it is not uncommon for one to question everything one was taught to believe as a Mormon, and that would include what Mormonism has to say about historical Christianity.

I can't recall ever seeing that. However, I would love to be disproven. This is probably hard to show (so don't think I'm doubting you until you prove otherwise), but do you have any links, sites, posts, names of people for whom the above applies?

Myself, for one (though, to be fair, I was an adult convert to Mormonism who was raised in a Protestant home and minored in Religious Studies, so I didn't get all my edumacation on religion and religious history from Mormonism).