Questions about the God of the Old Testament

[_Dr. Shades]

[MODERATOR NOTE: I split the banter between cksalmon and Shulem into its own thread, which you can read at:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21594

cksalmon and Shulem, if you wish to continue your dialogue, please do so in that thread. Thanks!]

[_Stormy Waters]

So do I believe the intentional and deliberate murder of children is wrong? Of course I do. Don't you?

I'm glad to have discovered so many anti-abortion advocates on this board.

I figuratively lock arms with you, Stormy, and am glad to have found common cause.

Sorry, I'm confused. Is killing children right or wrong according to you?

[_Stormy Waters]

[MODERATOR NOTE: I split the banter between cksalmon and Shulem into its own thread, which you can read at:

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... =1&t=21594

cksalmon and Shulem, if you wish to continue your dialogue, please do so in that thread. Thanks!]

Thanks Shades!

[_Franktalk]

God doesn't murder children. Man does. So there's nothing to justify.

Jumping to the conclusion that God somehow was involved in Old Testament "history" is just... naïve.

This is one way to reconcile the Old Testament. It is reasonable and worldly. Within its self defined framework it is consistent. The Biblical view from someone like myself I believe is consistent as well. But the two views come from way different world views. It is my belief that some who seek God settle when they believe in the love of God. They don't care about details in scripture in general and for sure the Old Testament. But the Old Testament set the stage for Jesus to come to the earth in the flesh. Only by preparing the ground could Jesus accomplish all of His assigned tasks.

[_Franktalk]

I have to bring this up one more time. This would be the decay rates changing for atomic decay. I did some more investigation and it does appear that small changes in the decay rates are somehow tied to mechanics of the sun. The current theory is neutrinos coming from the sun are somehow involved. Who knows. But the change is there. I will post a link to a site and if you download the pdf it goes into some of the raw data. I suspect that the flux density is a small link to the ZPE but that will all fall out over the next few years.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0808.3283

Great article.

[_Morley]

I have to bring this up one more time. This would be the decay rates changing for atomic decay. I did some more investigation and it does appear that small changes in the decay rates are somehow tied to mechanics of the sun. The current theory is neutrinos coming from the sun are somehow involved. Who knows. But the change is there. I will post a link to a site and if you download the pdf it goes into some of the raw data. I suspect that the flux density is a small link to the ZPE but that will all fall out over the next few years.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0808.3283

Great article.

My emphasis.

It shouldn't have taken too much research. The article you originally linked to postulated this.

[_Franktalk]

A few posts back I quoted some verses in the Bible which indicate that we existed as a spirit before coming into the physical world. And as a spirit when the body dies we in essense continue without it. Now let me add that if that spirit is what we are then we only die on spiritual death. The death of the body is not an end to us but a change to the plane we manifest. Now to those who reject or otherwise refuse or acknowledge the spirit then their perception is that the body of flesh is an absolute end and we cease to exist. So death takes on a value beyond measure and our purpose is to prolong our life as long as possible. The connection we have in the flesh is strong and we do fear death. And when a loved one dies we mourn the loss. But from my view the death of the body is not the end. And of course our purpose is not to extend our life but to fulfill a plan that came from God. The value of a life in my view is to accomplish what God has planned for us. Now that may sound strange to some. But going further I would suggest that each of us was unique before we came here and each of us in God's eyes requires a different life to teach us. I suspect that some will never learn the lessons and others need almost no teaching but just need to pass through this existence in some short amount of time. I don't know for sure but I do know we are not all the same and it is beyond changes to the physical body.

[_Franktalk]

It shouldn't have taken too much research. The article you originally linked to postulated this.

Normally when I go through data and review the math related to that data I call that research. I don't have a clue what you call research.

[_Morley]

It shouldn't have taken too much research. The article you originally linked to postulated this.

Normally when I go through data and review the math related to that data I call that research. I don't have a clue what you call research.

re·search /ˈrēˌsərCH/

Noun:
The systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions.

Verb:
Investigate systematically.

Synonyms:
noun. investigation - exploration - search - study - inquiry
verb. explore - investigate - search - study - inquire

.......

You used the word 'investigation,' I believe.

.......

in·ves·ti·ga·tion /inˌvestiˈgāSHən/

Noun:
The action of investigating something or someone; formal or systematic examination or research.
A formal inquiry or systematic study.

Synonyms:
inquiry - research - examination - probe - search

.......

Whichever you prefer.

[_cksalmon]

Sorry, I'm confused.

With no offense intended, Stormy, that is my read of the situation as well.

Is killing children right or wrong according to you?

But, I've already suggested to you that the question must be contextualized to have any discursive force.

You wrote: "So do I believe the intentional and deliberate murder of children is wrong? Of course I do." That's an unqualified statement, as far as I can tell. But, you've here conflated "murder" and "killing," which appears to introduce equivocation into the discussion.

So, I would ask you the same question, but with specific exemplary cases for your consideration:

For example:
(1) Is the intentional and deliberate destruction of viable fetuses morally permissible? [I would term that "murder," simpliciter, but you may not. It remains to be seen: is that "murder," on your view?]
(2) Were Truman's intentional and deliberate actions that were deliberately intended to kill humans indiscriminately (children and adults) morally permissible? Did those actions constitute "murder," on your view?
(3) What about ectopic pregnancies? Killing or murder?

I'm just trying to establish a baseline view, so that your quite-legitimate questions regarding Old Testament can be discussed fairly.