I learned where I am going today

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_Sethbag
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _Sethbag »

Jason Bourne wrote:Just Me

Today you were taught false doctrine.

That's a pretty easy statement to make. You could have said it on any given Sunday. ;-)

Why is the Holy Spirit like a Chinese finger trap?

Seriously, according to believers, just about any good emotion or feeling you ever had can justifiably be interpreted as the Holy Spirit, so they suck you further and further in. But if you realize at some point that you've just been having normal human emotional or psychological experiences, then all of a sudden you're a Son of Perdition. Is the Holy Spirit really barbed in this way?

Here's a heads up to any still wavering on how to think about this stuff: if the belief system only allows one-way logic, and fear is the tool used to keep you from going the other way, the belief system is probably a steaming pile of crap that doesn't deserve to be believed. Don't be intimidated by this crap.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_Tchild
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _Tchild »

just me wrote:Today at church we talked about The Judgement (yes, capital letters, folks). This was the Relief Society/P lesson.

So, basically, "ex-mormons" are going to outer-darkness.

But, I was a wee bit confused. It could be that I am actually going to the Telestial Kingdom because I haven't actually denied anything I've felt before...I just interpret it differently than the LDS church would have me interpret my expereinces.

Ex-Mormon's are going to outer-darkness because they deny what they felt as members. They just can't leave the church alone!

That is what I learned. Oh, and that pretty much you have to be perfect to go to the CK.

I once said that the LDS church was a "fear based religion" to which Dr. Peterson replied, "no it is not".

To which I reply..."read the above". Mormonism is a FEAR BASED RELIGION. Capitalized so that it will sink in to the doubter's feeble and weak minds.

God, I love it when I am right and Dr. Peterson is a proven to be a crazed moron.
_why me
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _why me »

just me wrote:HAHA!

Ok, I think my bishop would have disagreed, too. It wasn't actually the teacher who said it, but a class member who was speaking for her group (one group per kingdom). That was her interpretation of the scripture she was given that tells who goes to OD.

I was pretty surprised to hear her say "ex-mormon's" because I think that was pretty presumptious. She was definantly thinking that feeling the HG and then saying you didn't or whatever was considered denying the Holy Ghost.


And of course, being true to form, you remained silent and just sat there sitting on your hands. Waiting to come here and post. Now of course, you could have raised your hand and made a comment in class about perhaps she got it all wrong. But no...you just sat there. Why? Why do you find it so hard to raise your hand and make a comment?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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_why me
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _why me »

Jason Bourne wrote:Just Me

Today you were taught false doctrine.


I think that she said a class member made the comment and not the teacher.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _why me »

Equality wrote:
So, you're calling the OP a liar? She said she was taught it in church this week. And you come on here and say it's not taught? Or by "we" are you not referring to people teaching in the LDS church, which is where the OP was when she was taught it?


I think that she said that a member made the comment in the meeting. Of course Just Me has a mouth and could have said something but she prefers to make her class comments on this board.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Polygamy-Porter
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _Polygamy-Porter »

Jason Bourne wrote:Just Me

Today you were taught false doctrine.


So were you Jason.
New name: Boaz
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_bcspace
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _bcspace »

Jesus makes you perfect if you show you're willing. If you reject His Church, you're not willing.

So it is the Church more than the message.


No, the Church is the only method whereby you'll receive the message. Ephesians 4:11-14
Machina Sublime
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_bcspace
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _bcspace »

Jesus makes you perfect if you show you're willing. If you reject His Church, you're not willing.

THAT is balderdash. On both counts.


On the contrary, it's LDS doctrine.

I agree with Harmony. Jesus can't make anyone perfect in this life.


I never said "in this life".
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_bcspace
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Re: I learned where I am going today

Post by _bcspace »

This is what the Gospel Principles manual says about Outer Darkness:

These are they who had testimonies of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord but allowed Satan to overcome them. They denied the truth and defied the power of the Lord. There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. They will not have a kingdom of glory. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. (See D&C 76:28–35, 44–48.)

Note there is no mention of needing to see God or Jesus. Or to have a perfect knowledge.


I'm not necessarily agreeing with your opponent here, but the problem here is that you've not looked at all the doctrine on the subject. For example:

D&C 76:31 . To What Extent Must a Person Know God’s Power and Be a Partaker Before He Becomes a Son of Perdition?

To become a son of perdition one must sin against the Holy Ghost, but before that is possible, one must receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Elder Melvin J. Ballard explained that “unto the Holy Ghost has been given the right and the privilege of manifesting the truth unto men as no other power will. So that when he makes a man see and know a thing he knows it better than he shall ever know anything else; and to sin against that knowledge is to sin against the greatest light there is, and consequently commit the greatest sin there is.” ( Millennial Star, 11 Aug. 1932, pp. 499–500.)

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith further explained why sin against the Holy Ghost is so serious: “The Spirit of God speaking to the spirit of man has power to impart truth with greater effect and understanding than the truth can be imparted by personal contact even with heavenly beings. Through the Holy Ghost the truth is woven into the very fibre and sinews of the body so that it cannot be forgotten.” (“The Sin against the Holy Ghost,” Instructor, Oct. 1935, p. 431.)

The Prophet Joseph Smith asked, concerning those who become sons of perdition, “What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” ( Teachings, p. 358.)

Elder Spencer W. Kimball wrote: “The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin” ( Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 123).

Of apostates who had committed the unpardonable sin, the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “When a man begins to be an enemy to this work, he hunts me, he seeks to kill me, and never ceases to thirst for my blood. He gets the spirit of the devil—the same spirit that they had who crucified the Lord of Life—the same spirit that sins against the Holy Ghost.” ( Teachings, p. 358.)

People do not come to such a state in a moment. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith described the path that some follow, which would cause them to hate God and his servants: “The change of heart does not come all at once, but is due to transgression in some form, which continues to lurk in the soul without repentance, until the Holy Ghost withdraws, and then that man is left to spiritual darkness. Sin begets sin, the darkness grows until the love of truth turns to hatred and the love of God is overcome by the wicked desire to destroy all that is just and true. In this way Christ is put to open shame, and blasphemy exalted.” ( Instructor, Oct. 1935, p. 432.)

Such people have placed themselves outside the redemptive powers of Christ (see Hebrews 6:4–9 ; 10:26–29 ; Matthew 12:31–32 ). They cannot partake of His mercy because they cannot incline themselves to repent, having totally lost the Spirit of God. Their sin “is an offense so heinous that the sinner is unable to repent; and this is what makes his case hopeless. If he could repent, he could be forgiven; but being incapable of repentance, he cannot be reached by the pardoning power.” (Orson F. Whitney, Improvement Era, Mar. 1920, p. 413.)

“In the realms of perdition or the kingdom of darkness, where there is no light, Satan and the unembodied spirits of the pre-existence shall dwell together with those of mortality who retrogress to the level of perdition. These have lost the power of regeneration. They have sunk so low as to have lost the inclinations and ability to repent.” (Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 125.)

Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual
Section 76 - The Vision of the Degrees of Glory


Do I see attitudes displayed here sufficient for Outer Darkness? Yes, I believe I do. Do I think that all apostates who die in that state will inherit OD? No, I don't.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
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