New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times" ...

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_Rollo Tomasi
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New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times" ...

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

Don't know if anyone noticed this, but two days ago (12/12/11) a new statement appeared in the "Newsroom" section at the LDS Church website, entitled "Divine Revelation in Modern Times." Here is the text:

The idea that God communicates with mankind challenges some modern sensibilities. A distant God, the thinking goes, is a safe God. And though many religious people believe God spoke to prophets in antiquity, they often limit divine revelation to the past. This puts members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in a unique position. Mormons believe “all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and … that He will yet reveal many great and important things” (Articles of Faith 1:9).

In its broad meaning, revelation is divine guidance or inspiration; it is the communication of truth and knowledge from God to His children on earth, suited to their language and understanding. It simply means to uncover something not yet known. That religion depends on revelation is nothing new. A crucial lesson of scripture is that human beings tend to neglect the patterns of the past and struggle to discern the perils of the future. People search for God and seek to understand themselves. The traditional role of revelation, given to both individuals and God’s chosen leaders, has been to fill in this picture.

The Bible illustrates different types of revelation, ranging from dramatic visions to gentle feelings — from the “burning bush” to the “still, small voice.” Mormons generally believe that divine guidance comes quietly, taking the form of impressions, thoughts and feelings carried by the Spirit of God.

Most often, revelation unfolds as an ongoing, prayerful dialogue with God: A problem arises, its dimensions are studied out, a question is asked, and with sufficient faith, God leads us to answers, either partial or full. Though ultimately a spiritual experience, revelation also requires careful thought. God does not simply hand down information. He expects us to figure things out through prayerful searching and sound thinking.

Mormons affirm that just as individuals strive to communicate personally with God, so He communicates personally with them. He is interested in the course of their lives and willing to give the direction they need. To those who seek and accept His guidance, He responds. To experience revelation in one’s life is to sense God’s presence and to feel His affections.

Here are some snapshots of what revelation looks like among Latter-day Saints. At home, a mother and father kneel in prayer and receive inspiration on how to raise their children, where to lay down their roots, which employment to seek or ways they can help their neighbors. In a congregation, a local bishop prays to know which parishioners to select as leaders and teachers, how to put food on the table of a family who is out of work or how to help youth navigate a confusing world.

The same process works for senior Church leadership. Mormons consider themselves fortunate to have experienced and inspired leaders, including the First Presidency — consisting of a president with two counselors — and a Quorum of Twelve Apostles. These senior leaders receive revelation for the Church as a whole on matters that range widely. This inspiration helps them govern the Church’s affairs and discern the current needs of its members. In preparation for their addresses to the Church during worldwide general conferences, speakers (both men and women) prayerfully seek insight to know the matters they should address. By fervently searching to know the will of God, they open themselves to the understanding that He provides. Church leaders are blessed with revelation in their capacity as Church leaders, just as individuals are enlightened in the context of their own lives. Revelation permeates the entire Church — bottom, top and in between.

Like a river guided by its banks, revelation received by Church leadership flows through an orderly channel. Doctrinal, administrative and policy decisions, for example, are carefully weighed against historical precedent. The foundational revelations and teachings of the Church serve as the basis for decision-making. Church leaders work outward from the already established foundation of scripture, teachings, practices and traditions and chart a course for the future.

Church governance at all levels is deliberated in councils. This consultative model ensures collaboration and a thorough airing of ideas and diverging views. Major decisions are not made unless there is unanimity.

In addition, religious authority must be exercised “by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned” (D&C 121:41). Leaders and individuals in the Church understand that making inspired decisions and exercising authority are sacred privileges and that “the powers of heaven” can be handled only by “the principles of righteousness” (D&C 121:36).

In keeping with the past, this revelatory process continues. Mormons find agreement with Ralph Waldo Emerson, who urged divinity students to teach “that God is, not was; that He speaketh, not spake.” Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland has said, “We believe in a God who is engaged in our lives, who is not silent, not absent.”

I'm curious as to the reason for and timing of the statement. My initial reaction is that it confirms what many (including myself) have long thought -- revelation in the LDS sense has become 'watered down.' There is virtually no mention in the statement of "prophets, seers and revelators" to describe Thomas Monson and other high Church leaders; instead, their administrative role is highlighted: "president and two counselors" -- "experienced and inspired leaders" -- "senior leaders," etc. Moreover, the statement appears to place such "leaders" on par with all other "speakers" (including women) at General Conference (which I think is a good thing, but which is not the typical TBM view, in my opinion). This 'watering down' of "modern revelation" (started by GBH in the 1990's when, during an interview, he conceded there was little need for more revelation because we already have a "great reservoir") has continued to the point where it almost seems an irrelevant part of today's Mormonism. Just my $.02.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Aristotle Smith
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

We as Mormons want to emphatically declare the utter uniqueness of our revelations and how it completely sets us apart from all the rest of the religious world. You want proof? Revelation in the LDS church is utterly indistinguishable from the decision processes at the local big box evangelical mega church. See, isn't it obvious?
_Fence Sitter
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _Fence Sitter »

There are no public theological discussion at the general authority level anymore. Orthodoxy seems to be based on a general consensus. There are few litmus tests for membership. And I believe the reluctance to take a public stance on a theological issues or offer new revelations goes back a lot further than GBH. Yes we are Christians, just like anyone else, and becoming more so everyday.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Buffalo
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _Buffalo »

I think this speaks in their favor. They're not willing to pretend to great revelations, as early church leaders did.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_stemelbow
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _stemelbow »

This 'watering down' of "modern revelation" (started by GBH in the 1990's when, during an interview, he conceded there was little need for more revelation because we already have a "great reservoir") has continued to the point where it almost seems an irrelevant part of today's Mormonism. Just my $.02.



That would have some truth to it if "modern" did not imply the duration of years since the time of Joseph Smith' first vision. As it is, "modern" clearly implies since 1820.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Wisdom Seeker
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _Wisdom Seeker »

The same process works for senior Church leadership. Mormons consider themselves fortunate to have experienced and inspired leaders, including the First Presidency — consisting of a president with two counselors — and a Quorum of Twelve Apostles. These senior leaders receive revelation for the Church as a whole on matters that range widely. This inspiration helps them govern the Church’s affairs and discern the current needs of its members. In preparation for their addresses to the Church during worldwide general conferences, speakers (both men and women) prayerfully seek insight to know the matters they should address. By fervently searching to know the will of God, they open themselves to the understanding that He provides. Church leaders are blessed with revelation in their capacity as Church leaders, just as individuals are enlightened in the context of their own lives. Revelation permeates the entire Church — bottom, top and in between.


Where's the revelation?
_Themis
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _Themis »

Buffalo wrote:I think this speaks in their favor. They're not willing to pretend to great revelations, as early church leaders did.


Actually Joseph was the only one. While we see a little from a few others, it is almost non-existent. People Like Joseph are the ones who start religions and claim many revelations and will make big changes all the time. This type generally does not lead well established organizations since they cannot bother to go through the necessary hoops to get the position. That goes to the ones who tend to not rock the boat, make little changes, etc. More cooperation type thinking.
42
_Darth J
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _Darth J »

Aristotle Smith wrote:We as Mormons want to emphatically declare the utter uniqueness of our revelations and how it completely sets us apart from all the rest of the religious world. You want proof? Revelation in the LDS church is utterly indistinguishable from the decision processes at the local big box evangelical mega church. See, isn't it obvious?


QFT
_Darth J
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _Darth J »

stemelbow wrote:
This 'watering down' of "modern revelation" (started by GBH in the 1990's when, during an interview, he conceded there was little need for more revelation because we already have a "great reservoir") has continued to the point where it almost seems an irrelevant part of today's Mormonism. Just my $.02.



That would have some truth to it if "modern" did not imply the duration of years since the time of Joseph Smith' first vision. As it is, "modern" clearly implies since 1820.


1. You have stated, "The Church stands or falls on certain propisitions but not on all propisitions." viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21389&start=84 Please list the propositions on which the Church stands or falls.

2. Please specify what, if anything, Joseph Smith could have done that would make him cease to be a prophet.

3. Two 20 year-old boys come to your house and tell you that they have a sacred book that has a divine message from God. The book says that we should be honest and virtuous, that we should treat other people kindly. However, the book is based on the premise that Rodney Dangerfield is a Martian who became the President of the United States. The boys tell you to pray about the book. You read some parts from the book about kindness and compassion to others, pray about it, and feel very strongly that God wants us to act the way the book tells us to. A couple days later, you tell the two boys that you had this experience. The boys tell you this is proof that the book is a true story. Should you now accept as fact the proposition that Rodney Dangerfield was a Martian who became the President of the United States?

4. There is no conclusive proof that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did not have a homosexual relationship. Since this proposition has not been conclusively proven to be false, why shouldn't critics of the Church believe that it happened?
_just me
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Re: New LDS statement re "Divine Revelation in Modern Times"

Post by _just me »

Thank you to those who provided Clif Note versions of that really long statement.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
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