Could we get a coupla more Moderators around here?

[Guest]

-

[_honorentheos]

My wife and I watched the movie The Adjustment Bureau a while back but until reading this thread it had never occurred to me that it's a fairly good representation of the moderation process here. Hm.

[_Jersey Girl]

Dear Mr. Shades,

I hope Mormon Discussion remains a place for FREEDOM OF SPEECH, and not a place where every post Jersey Girl doesn't agree with is banned. Thank you.
Daheshist

Derrick, sanest thing I've ever heard you say.

H.

How is that sane, LDST? Please show me anywhere on this thread, where I even remotely suggested "banning" anyone's post.

[_LDSToronto]

Derrick, sanest thing I've ever heard you say.

H.

How is that sane, LDST? Please show me anywhere on this thread, where I even remotely suggested "banning" anyone's post.

Derrick was standing up for freedom of speech. I happen to agree with that. Why would you make this about yourself, Jersey Girl?

Still baffled why you had to make a public display of all this...

H.

[_Jersey Girl]

LDST

Derrick was standing up for freedom of speech. I happen to agree with that. Why would you make this about yourself, Jersey Girl?

Are you reading the same post that I'm reading? You supported the totality of his post wherein he mentioned banning posts specifically directed at me. Nowhere on this thread, have I stated that any posts should be "banned". Did you want to ask Derrick why he made it about me?

Still baffled why you had to make a public display of all this...

A public display? You mean that I created an OP to discuss an issue? Sorry, dude, it's a message board where folks express their opinion as I have mine.

Why are you, a critic, so adverse to criticism?

[_Jersey Girl]

LDST,

Explain something to me. In one of your first posts on this thread, you criticized me for not replying to Chap. Now that I've replied to most of the comments directed to me, do you now wish me to stop replying?

Do you post on the threads that you start?

Less than half of the posts on this thread are my own. How is that a "public display"?

[_Jersey Girl]

Does that post meet the rules for the Terrestrial?

There are two issues here:

1. Does this post break the Terrestrial rules. Yes, it does. I admit that. And if it was moved, I'd understand.

2. Does it meet Jersey Girls sense of cool? You said it does not. That is what scares me - you would arbitrarily move posts based on what you judge cool and what you judge un-cool.

Mods can move my posts - hell, mods have moved my posts. No big deal if I'm breaking rules. But I think you reveal your true motivation in your previous posts.

H.

The only issue that I see in these exchanges, LDST, is that you are unable to read my posts for what they say or you're trying to play head games. If it's the latter, I assure you that it doesn't work with me.

Check my first response to Shades and you tell me, LDST, why I asked you if the post in question met the forum rules for the Terrestrial?

As for the "cool" remark. Did you miss the context in which it was offered?

[_Chap]

I am glad that Jersey Girl has given examples of posts she thought should have been subject to moderation:

1.LDSToronto's post directed to stemelbow.

2. Darth J.'s post directed to stemelbow.

Checking the rules (see below), it is clear that LDSToronto's post violated Terrestrial rule 3, and hence could have been moved to Telestial or edited by a moderator.

Did Darth J.s post violate Terrestrial rule 2

"No blatant or otherwise obvious personal attacks allowed"?

That seems less clear. Darth J. certainly spoke contemptuously of stemelbow's abilty to construct arguments and to write clear prose. On the other hand he exemplified his criticisms quite effectively from stemelbow's posts. I suggest that we have to read Terrestrial rule 2 in the light of Celestial rules 2 and 3

"No personal attacks allowed whatsoever."
"No disrespectful communications allowed. Address the ideas, not the person who posts them."

It seems clear therefore that when one is NOT in Celestial one may post some kind of personal attack (but in Terrestrial it may not be 'blatant'), and one may address the person who posts as well as the ideas posted. The fact that Darth J. claimed that stemelbow had poor reading comprehension and prose composition abilities did not therefore automatically make his post non-Terrestrial.

On the basis of my own observation of moderation here, it seems to me that the following is a personal attack of the kind that gets counted as a "blatant or otherwise obvious personal attack" on Terrestrial:

You are a lying dumbass antimormon/TBM

and this would be an acceptably Terrestrial personal attack:

Yet again you demonstrate your complete inability to make logical deductions or construct an argument, as opposed to writing mere pretentious word salad. You think that the following sentences [....] are an argument in favor of [...]. In fact they are not, for the following reasons [...]. Why don't you study a book on elementary logic before you bore us with this stuff again?

.

Maybe Dr Shades could say whether he thinks I am more or less correct?

UNIVERSAL RULES:

Everyone is welcome. Every opinion is welcome. Therefore, do not "de-invite" anyone or suggest that they go elsewhere.
Do not post faux moderator comments. To this end, do not use red-colored font. Any message falsely portrayed as being from a moderator will be deleted.
Do not make mention of anything that allegedly transpired or is transpiring via the chat room or via private message that the source him- or herself has not overtly made public. People who communicate behind-the-scenes obviously intend their communications to remain behind-the-scenes. Any post on the board itself making reference to such things will be deleted.
Do not "derail" threads or otherwise insert commentary that has nothing to do with a thread's opening post.
If you wish to start a thread having nothing to do with Mormonism, do so only in the Off-Topic Forum. That's what it's there for.
"Cross-posting" from other message boards is allowed. Feel free. If you do this--or if you just mention content hosted at another site--always provide a link to that content so people can find out just what it is you're talking about.
Do not reveal personal or "in real life" information about any poster on this site that he or she has not explicitly revealed here. This includes avoiding mention of his/her actual first or last name, even if he or she has made it available on some other website.*
Moderators and administrators will follow the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. Try to see things from their point of view.


RULES FOR THE CELESTIAL FORUM:

Keep all communications "Rated G."
No personal attacks allowed whatsoever.
No disrespectful communications allowed. Address the ideas, not the person who posts them.
No swear words allowed. Not only does this mean to avoid the "F" and "S" words and any of their many variants, it also means to avoid lesser bad words such as "bitch," "piss," "ass," etc. Altering the spelling or substituting a symbol for a character does not give you a free pass to disregard this rule.
No specific temple content allowed.


RULES FOR THE TERRESTRIAL FORUM AND THE OFF-TOPIC FORUM:

Keep all communications "Rated PG" to "Rated PG-13" or better.
No blatant or otherwise obvious personal attacks allowed.
Do not use the "F" or "S" words or any of their many variants. Altering the spelling or substituting a symbol for a character does not give you a free pass to disregard this rule.
No specific temple content allowed.


RULES FOR THE TELESTIAL FORUM:

Keep all communications "Rated R" to "Rated NC-17" or better. In other words, no blatantly pornographic words or images.


All rules are subject to change or clarification as the need arises.

[_Dr. Shades]

This thread which was posted by Ceeboo, not long before his (temp) departure:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... 17#p531217

Should have never been jettisoned into the Off Topic forum.

Yes it should've. It had no direct relationship to Mormonism.

This is what I would characterize as a "seasonal community building" thread that we often see during the holiday season.

That's correct. "Seasonal community building" threads belong in the Off-Topic Forum.

Please note the comment that Blixa made about "sane moderation".

Noted. So?

When you swipe community building threads off the main forum and fail to attend to personal attacks such as the LDST example I posted above, it sends the message that personal attacks are valued . . .

Personal attacks are not valued. They can simply be missed if they aren't reported. . . which that one wasn't.

. . . and community building threads are not.

Community building threads are very highly valued. . . in the Off-Topic Forum.

The hostility that heats up the board, and sometimes boils over, is offset by community building threads.

Right. And such threads belong in the Off-Topic Forum.

Some of our moderators understand the value of maintaining balance on a board, while others seem oblivious to the need for it.

Nobody on earth understands the value of maintaining balance on a board more than I do. That's why I balance it by placing all threads into their proper forums.

I'm going to insert a link to another type of thread for contrast.

Here's the other side of the coin:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... 59#p530759

It's an OP initiated by Darth. I like the heck out of DJ, but this entire OP is a personal attack that was left to stand without question and I'm not sure why.

Any ideas about that?

See Chap's response for the reasons why.

Well this one is still in the Terrestrial.

Not sure why I'm even bothering with any of this, but you do have a valid point. Once upon a time, even one or two posts like this would be expunged from the thread and be immediately sent to the Telestial.

Such posts still are--that one was. Yet sometimes we miss them unless and until you hit the "Report" button.

My wife and I watched the movie The Adjustment Bureau a while back but until reading this thread it had never occurred to me that it's a fairly good representation of the moderation process here. Hm.

I've never seen the movie. Will you please tell me what you mean?

Anyway, on to my own comments:

Chap hits the nail squarely on the head with his post directly above this one. Review it for the reasons why LDSToronto's post had to go but Darth J's was allowed to stay.

I might also add a little clarifier by re-stating something I pointed out several months ago: A personal attack (for purposes of the argument) is a lot less "blatant" or "obvious" if it is delivered with a certain degree of style, pizzazz, flair, wit, and panache. Such a delivery will go a long way toward ensuring that the post remains in the forum in which it is originally posted.

Take a look at the following two hypothetical examples:

EXAMPLE #1: You are a stupid f*****g asshole. Go die in a fire, dumb ass.

EXAMPLE #2: I will now leave you to continue engaging in your favorite activity, that of furiously masturbating to your vast collection of Menudo memorabilia.

Are they both personal attacks? Yes. But note how the latter example took a modicum of wit and wisdom to post. Ergo, the first example would go, but the second example would stay.

Here's another excercise:

EXAMPLE #1: You are a moron, you stupid dip****. Go crawl back under your rock.

EXAMPLE #2: Here's a hint: Most ladies like a guy with class, not some oafish dolt whose only instinct is to mount her and then douse her with the revolting liquid from the oily musk gland below his anus. That's where you went wrong.

Once again, the first example would go; the second one would stay.

Lastly, I respectfully request that everyone remember the most important rule of this message board (paraphrasing from memory): Everyone is welcome. All opinions are welcome. Therefore, do not "de-invite" anyone or suggest that he or she go elsewhere.

[_LDSToronto]

LDST,

Explain something to me. In one of your first posts on this thread, you criticized me for not replying to Chap. Now that I've replied to most of the comments directed to me, do you now wish me to stop replying?

No.

Do you post on the threads that you start?

Yes.

Less than half of the posts on this thread are my own. How is that a "public display"?

I'm referring to your crusade and not to the quantity of your posts.

H.