The Prophet's Alphabet

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_CaliforniaKid
_Emeritus
Posts: 4247
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:47 am

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Kevin Graham wrote:Incidentally, there is a great discussion in the Nephi and his Asherah thread.

Check out Robert Crockett taking LDS scholars to task over that issue.

I always find it interesting to watch Mormons argue about which layer of the biblical text should be authoritative. For evangelicals, even the recognition that there are layers would be grounds for loss of faith.

And I have to say that I think the evangelical attitude makes a lot more sense. The whole idea of a "canon" of textual authorities is silly from the get-go, but how can it even be tenable once you accept that those textual authorites are rife with contradictions and competing human agendas?

Back in the Middle Ages, the Bible was just one of many texts that was treated as an "authority" to be accepted unquestioningly. The canon also included classical writers such as Aristotle and Euclid. It was revolutionary when a version of Euclid's text was discovered that included his "proofs" of his formulae. It revealed that Euclid was not a prophet, but a mere man engaging in problem-solving and showing his work. Gradually, humanists in the later Middle Ages discovered that the classical canon was full of forgeries, errors, and agendas. They moved incrementally toward the view that classical arguments should be accepted on their merits, not their authority. Somehow, though, scripture has escaped this humanistic sifting process. Modern American Christians are still medieval in their views of scripture.
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _moksha »

Kevin Graham wrote:I'm utterly amazed how many people are paying attention to these exchanges. .


You shouldn't be surprised at all. Everyone knows that the future of LDS Apologetics is riding upon the outcome of Mr. Schryver's arguments. If he loses then decades worth of apologetic efforts will have been in vain. Wade and Will must give it their all or else the thread will be closed, Xander will be banned and their will be no Daze of '47 Parade this year.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _DrW »

Kevin,

Thanks for your detailed response to my earlier post.

I would definitely agree that your recently adopted shift in posting style, wherein you take a more dispassionate and studied approach in responding to the apologists, and especially Will and Wade, has helped you to "win friends and influence people" over on MDD (and apparently at Signature Books as well - well done).

by the way: You might want to check out this thread in the Celestial Forum:
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21468
Thanks.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _Shulem »

LOL! Ya know, I damn near expect William to make that argument.



That would be par for the course, typical Mormon apologetics to save their religion by applying open ended what-ifs rather than just face the truth and admit that something is rotten in Denmark.

Paul O
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _Shulem »

"Hey Kids! Try Schryver's Cipher Theory -- Now with Less Cipher!"



Is there a Cipher in your kid's bowl?

Image

THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE CHURCH OF Jesus Christ OF CIPHER-DAY SAINTS

Paul O
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _Shulem »

Modern American Christians are still medieval in their views of scripture.


Yes, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. It's amazing that modern man with all our forward thinking and progess continues to hold to old biblical traditions/stories that are obviously made up. But everyone needs something to hold on to and make them feel safe.

Paul O
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _Runtu »

That thread over there is an object lesson in the difference between scholarship and whatever it is Wade and Will are doing. You and George lay out a case based on clear and obvious evidence, which Wade consistently misunderstands. Will chimes in with nothing more than the usual ad hominem, but, you know, he's right because he uses a lot of exclamation points!

Wade then acknowledges that he is intentionally ignorant of scholarly work done on the history and origins of the Book of Mormon. Then Will and Bill Hamblin mock George for saying that Wade ought to actually read something on the subject. Hamblin, of course, is of the school of thought that insists that, unless you've read the relevant apologetic scholarship, you have no business commenting on anything.

But, for its sheer irony, this quote from Wade stands alone. It may be the quote of the year from MDD:

You agree with Kevin, and so it makes sense that you would see it that way. When people are in agreement, it is more difficult for them to bring a level of objectivity and critical review that may be needed. That is why it is good to have opposing eyes look over our work because they may see things that we may have inadvertently overlooked.


You cannot make this stuff up.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _Fence Sitter »

6000 +- hits in 24 hours.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Dr. Shades
_Emeritus
Posts: 14117
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Kevin Graham wrote:So I don't think many people are really invested in Schryver's theory. In fact, I get the sense that the folks ate FAIR are looking for a good reason to drop it altogether. Given his recent spat with a moderator, I think there are more and more people becoming fed up with him.

Will you please provide us with a link to this spat?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: The Prophet's Alphabet

Post by _DrW »

As of 16:30 EST, the view count on the GAEl/Papyri post over at MDD has exceeded 16,000 and the view to post ratio is holding steady at approximately 250:1 (now 252:1).

Unless someone is playing games on the view side (which I doubt), there would appear to be 200 - 300 people, or more, following this thread very closely.

(Maybe Kevin and George Miller are the ones who have the natural audience and should be writing the book. )
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Post Reply