The Prophet's Alphabet

[Guest]

So ... people are going there thousands of times to read Kevin Graham.

They're going to see the fireworks when Kevin is actively engaged in the discussion.

Got it. And Schryver is so temperate and scholarly that the mods keep deleting his posts ...

The mods keep deleting his posts for the same reason I was taken out of that thread for a completely moderate and reasoned criticism of Graham and his approach to the debate while Kevin is being allowed snarky ad hominem attack after snarky ad hominem attack against Will, Wade, and Hamblin, against all board rules and after a recent post by the moderators calling for a better "tone" on the board: They don't like him (and believe me, if you ever crossed David Bokovoy there, you will not be liked, as if it ever becomes obvious to the mods you do not adhere to the correct political views).

The board rules at the MDD board are more smoke and mirrors to keep disliked "outsiders" out of the discussions than to keep the peace in the forums. Graham is as nasty, insulting, and snarky as ever, and they're letting him get away with it. Why, I have no idea.

[_Droopy]

Droopy,

From what I can see, Kevin and George Miller are the ones who are citing the real experts to back their positions, (Hamblin is probably sorry he even asked the question),

But, as Bill pointed out, they're really aren't any to speak of, as of yet. The only scholarly treatises out and about at all on the GAEL are Chris's and Will's. All of R. McGraham's citings were of general Book of Abraham material, not relevant scholarship.

forcing Wade to admit that he is not a scholar, and that George Miller would be right if Wade were a scholar (look for yourself), and making Will talk about quitting the field.

You do not have to be a "scholar" in a formal academic sense to do good intellectual work. Oh, and by the way, Graham is nothing approaching a scholar, in either educational background, intellectual ability, or the all important temperament.

Do you really think that Will Schryver's "cypher" claims are anything but nonsense?

I don't think you have any more idea what you're talking about then Graham, which is why you sit in his lap and lick his face as you do.

When once, just once, critics are able to demonstrate that they understand the difference between hypothesis, theory, free floating speculation, and established fact and make some attempt to separate their biases from the actual weight of the evidence before them, and when they are willing to approach dissenting thought and interpretations with a degree of intellectual honesty and good faith, the debate will proceed at a much better and more fruitful pace than it has thus far.

[_Kevin Graham]

Riddle us this droopy. My reputation points jumped from 23 to 127 since last week. I don't think any of wilburs posts have received any points. He's had around 130 points for at least a month now. He has 5000+ posts and i only have 500+ and i have damn near tied him in reputation on his home forum.

How do u explain this?

[Guest]

Kevin, I've been reading the postings over on MDD - your arguments are thorough. What I'm wondering is if anyone has every drawn out a timeline that illustrates the argument? I have a hard time keeping track of the pre-existing manuscripts, what should and should not be where in what order to make certain arguments more or less tractable, etc.

For us visual thinkers, does anything exist?

H.

[_Sethbag]

Droopy, Kevin and George are destroying Wade over there. They are literally drawing and quartering him. The best he can do is try to catch them in some word technicality so he can claim to have got something right, while the real gyst of what they are saying is obliterating Will's cipher theory. Wade is embarassing himself so badly in that thread that it's becoming physically painful for me to watch it.

[_Chap]

So ... people are going there thousands of times to read Kevin Graham.

They're going to see the fireworks when Kevin is actively engaged in the discussion.

And then they give this critic of LDS apologetics reputation points just to show how much they despise him. Thanks for explaining.

Got it. And Schryver is so temperate and scholarly that the mods keep deleting his posts ...

The mods keep deleting his posts for the same reason I was taken out of that thread for a completely moderate and reasoned criticism of Graham and his approach to the debate while Kevin is being allowed snarky ad hominem attack after snarky ad hominem attack against Will, Wade, and Hamblin, against all board rules and after a recent post by the moderators calling for a better "tone" on the board: They don't like him (and believe me, if you ever crossed David Bokovoy there, you will not be liked, as if it ever becomes obvious to the mods you do not adhere to the correct political views).

The board rules at the MDD board are more smoke and mirrors to keep disliked "outsiders" out of the discussions than to keep the peace in the forums. Graham is as nasty, insulting, and snarky as ever, and they're letting him get away with it. Why, I have no idea.

For my part, I have a clear impression that Graham is not 'as nasty, insulting, and snarky as ever'. He seems to have been able to kick his old habit of calling people idiots, morons etc. just for disagreeing with him (a habit which I have criticized in the past), and in my view that has greatly improved the impact of his posts. Schryver on the other hand has lost his cool quite markedly and threatened to pull out of the discussion. I note that Droopy says about Schryver:

The mods keep deleting his posts for the same reason I was taken out of that thread ...

If that is the case, then I suspect that most people acquainted with Droopy will not feel more positively about Schryver as a result of reading Droopy's statement.

by the way - what is really going on in the way this thread is being managed by MDDB? There seem to be two possibilities here:

1. Someone has taken over moderation (at least for this thread) who actually believes, as a matter of principle, in running an open discussion without abuse, derailing, or irrelevant speculation about posters' motives. Hmmmm ....

2. Someone wants to see Schryver's 'cipher' theory (or whatever the 'cipher' theory has currently morphed into) thoroughly hung out to dry, and knows that Kevin Graham is the man to do it, so long as he gets fair play. Could it be that someone at NAMIRS needs to make sure that they cannot come under renewed pressure to publish Schryver's work after the noise about his crudely misognyistic posting style has died down? Letting Kevin Graham take him to pieces publicly while Schryver abuses the mods on a determinedly pro-LDS board seems a pretty good way to do that.

Of course, I am just an anonymous coward, so who cares what I think?

[_brade]

So ... people are going there thousands of times to read Kevin Graham.

They're going to see the fireworks when Kevin is actively engaged in the discussion.

Got it. And Schryver is so temperate and scholarly that the mods keep deleting his posts ...

The mods keep deleting his posts for the same reason I was taken out of that thread for a completely moderate and reasoned criticism of Graham and his approach to the debate while Kevin is being allowed snarky ad hominem attack after snarky ad hominem attack against Will, Wade, and Hamblin, against all board rules and after a recent post by the moderators calling for a better "tone" on the board: They don't like him (and believe me, if you ever crossed David Bokovoy there, you will not be liked, as if it ever becomes obvious to the mods you do not adhere to the correct political views).

The board rules at the MDD board are more smoke and mirrors to keep disliked "outsiders" out of the discussions than to keep the peace in the forums. Graham is as nasty, insulting, and snarky as ever, and they're letting him get away with it. Why, I have no idea.

Will you post a few examples of Kevin's nastiness?

[_Shulem]

Droopy, Kevin and George are destroying Wade over there. They are literally drawing and quartering him. The best he can do is try to catch them in some word technicality so he can claim to have got something right, while the real gyst of what they are saying is obliterating Will's cipher theory. Wade is embarassing himself so badly in that thread that it's becoming physically painful for me to watch it.

Indeed. And Mormon apologists will claim victory for their whole argument if they can just spot one little error or flaw in their opponent's presentation -- even if the flaw isn't germane to the crux of the argument. It's like two persons having an oral debate and the one accuses the other of losing because his opponent coughed or mispronounced a word or got a date wrong.

I have a hard time following Wade. I think both halves of his brain are at war with each other. And William is just a mad little boy striking out at everyone else because he's not a real scholar and he knows BYU won't let an ex-acid head pony tailed-boy into their school teacher club. Did I mention that BYU has lots of school teachers? Yes, they even have diplomas! Imagine that! John Gee has a diploma! Maybe he can tell me the name of the king . . . .

Paul O

[_Runtu]

Droopy, Kevin and George are destroying Wade over there. They are literally drawing and quartering him. The best he can do is try to catch them in some word technicality so he can claim to have got something right, while the real gyst of what they are saying is obliterating Will's cipher theory. Wade is embarassing himself so badly in that thread that it's becoming physically painful for me to watch it.

Yup. It's quite telling that Will has not given any substantive response to Kevin and George, but instead thrown out a lot of ad hominem and snarky, Hamblinesque demands for a bibliography. And the irony that Will is bailing out of a losing thread because he's had posts deleted is just too delicious. Apparently, his demand that people ignore Kevin didn't work, so he's taking his ball and going home in a huff. Oh, wait. That would assume he ever had a ball in the first place.

[_Tator]

I hope Bill and Wade find that red car, maybe it's in Will's garage.