A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

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_DrW
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A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _DrW »

On another thread Buffalo said:
Buffalo wrote:I hope I'm wrong, though. He should finish what he's doing and publish it, even if he has to self-publish.

On another older thread still, Stak suggested that Will simply make PDFs of his drafts and send them out for informal pre-publication review and comment.

I understand that the GAEL / Papyri therad over on the MADBoard (MDD) is great entertainment. But is is now so painful to watch that I feel compelled to make the following simple suggestion.

As was mentioned by Stak, it is perfectly acceptable nowadays to send out PDF drafts of papers for informal review and comment. In fact in some areas of research, such as genomics, pre-publication of results has become commonplace, and works to the benefit of all. Informal and electronic pre-publication review is now perfectly safe and acceptable.

So long as the paper is properly attributed and marked with the authors copyright, there is no danger of losing credit for one's work. The upside is that, more often than not, others interested in the field are willing to help out the authors of such papers by pointing out weaknesses and sometimes even suggesting ways to address them before formal submission.

If Will is serious about his cypher theory and about publishing his findings, he would do well to stop trying to grandstand on the boards, take what he has learned from George Miller and Kevin Graham, and finish his papers as best he can. He can then make a PDF of them and send that PDF to both supporters and critics with a request that they review and comment in confidence.

Since they are academics, I am100% sure that George and Chris would do so in a helpful and thoughtful way and do so in confidence. And I am pretty sure that Kevin and perhaps other qualified critics would pitch in as well. All of the Sturm and Drang could be managed in a quiet and confidential way.

Of course, Will would have to stand ready to address the comments that were made by supporters and critics alike. How he did so would be entirely up to him.

Once revised, the papers could then be formally submitted for publication and, if Will wished, I am sure that it would help to send along the informal review comments along with his explanation as to how they were handled in the revised text.

I understand that this may sound like a radical approach, but Will might just get enough help from other interested in the subject matter that he could come up with a theory that could be considered a contribution to the literature, even if it turned out to be a dead end (which it almost certainly will.)

So, Will, if you are reading over here, which you really should be, please consider this approach. I see it as the only way that you are going to come out of this with the slightest shred of dignity or credibility.

Once again:

1. Announce that you are going to leave the boards and finish up your work with no further public debate.

2. Finish your papers as best you can.

3. Have someone proofread them for you.

4. Make PDF versions of them.

5. Send out letters or e-mails to folks who have expressed interest in your work (and there are many) asking them if they would be willing to review you work informally and in confidence.

6. Send PDF copies of the paper to those who agree.

7. Work with these folks to get something that can perhaps eventually be published.

One thing about real academics is that they are usually very willing to help people who are genuinely interested in what they are interested in.

It might turn out that there really is not enough there to warrant publication. IMHO it would be better to know this and stop wasting your time rather than continue to be dawn and quartered on the boards.

Please think about this. I am pretty sure that any of the folks who are professional academics with interest and expertise in this area would be glad to help you and do so on confidence.

You can trust me that everyone involved in this theatre will be better off if you were to take this well meant suggestion.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

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_harmony
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver

Post by _harmony »

DrW wrote:So long as the paper is properly attributed and marked with the authors copyright, there is no danger of losing credit for one's work. The upside is that, more often than not, other interested in the field are willing to help out the authors of such papers by pointing out weaknesses and sometimes even suggesting ways to address them before formal submission.


I have never gotten in the impression that Will is willing to admit that his paper may have weaknesses. Doing so would mean he's actually serious about adding to the body of literature; I think he's only interested in adding to his own ego.

If Will is serious about his cypher theory and about publishing his findings, he would do well to stop trying to grandstand on the boards, take what he has learned from George Miller and Kevin Graham, and finish his papers as best he can.


A serious academic or even a serious hobbist would do this; Will, on the other hand, has never admitted he could learn anything from Kevin (George, I'm not sure about)

He can then make a PDF of them and send that PDF to both supporters and critics with a request that they review and comment in confidence.


This action would require that Will use his brain instead of his ego.

Of course, Will would have to stand ready to address the comments that were made by supporters and critics alike. How he did so would be entirely up to him.


And there's the problem: he'd have to admit that his theory isn't a watershed moment.

I understand that this may sound like a radical approach, but Will might just get enough help from other interested in the subject matter that he could come up with a theory that could be considered a contribution to the literature, even if it turned out to be a dead end (which it almost certainly will.)


Not gonna happen. Good idea, but Will isn't interested in contributing to the literature. He's interested in being the current Book of Abraham God.

Remember how he handled a paper that was submitted to FAIR... and how he trashed it publically? Well... no doubt he's afraid of the same treatment.
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_DrW
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver

Post by _DrW »

Harmony,

You are probably right. But at least Will and his supporters can't say that the folks over here such as you, Stak Buffalo, me and others did not honestly try to help him.

And, by the way, the practical suggestions that have been provided him over here have contained much more useful advice than he ever got (to my knowledge anyway) over on the MDD.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Drifting
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _Drifting »

Will is frantically seeking some kind of offence or conspiracy to latch on to as an excuse for not publishing. This is his only means for maintaining the illusion that he has produced something worth publishing.

He could serialise it in the Deseret News.
He could self publish.
He could post it online.
He could present it at Fair.
He could present it to the Maxwell Institute for them to publish.
Etc

He won't.
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_sethpayne
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _sethpayne »

DrW wrote:On another thread Buffalo said:
Buffalo wrote:I hope I'm wrong, though. He should finish what he's doing and publish it, even if he has to self-publish.

On another older thread still, Stak suggested that Will simply make PDFs of his drafts and send them out for informal pre-publication review and comment.

I understand that the GAEL / Papyri therad over on the MADBoard (MDD) is great entertainment. But is is now so painful to watch that I feel compelled to make the following simple suggestion.

As was mentioned by Stak, it is perfectly acceptable nowadays to send out PDF drafts of papers for informal review and comment. In fact in some areas of research, such as genomics, pre-publication of results has become commonplace, and works to the benefit of all. Informal and electronic pre-publication review is now perfectly safe and acceptable.

So long as the paper is properly attributed and marked with the authors copyright, there is no danger of losing credit for one's work. The upside is that, more often than not, others interested in the field are willing to help out the authors of such papers by pointing out weaknesses and sometimes even suggesting ways to address them before formal submission.

If Will is serious about his cypher theory and about publishing his findings, he would do well to stop trying to grandstand on the boards, take what he has learned from George Miller and Kevin Graham, and finish his papers as best he can. He can then make a PDF of them and send that PDF to both supporters and critics with a request that they review and comment in confidence.

Since they are academics, I am100% sure that George and Chris would do so in a helpful and thoughtful way and do so in confidence. And I am pretty sure that Kevin and perhaps other qualified critics would pitch in as well. All of the Sturm and Drang could be managed in a quiet and confidential way.

Of course, Will would have to stand ready to address the comments that were made by supporters and critics alike. How he did so would be entirely up to him.

Once revised, the papers could then be formally submitted for publication and, if Will wished, I am sure that it would help to send along the informal review comments along with his explanation as to how they were handled in the revised text.

I understand that this may sound like a radical approach, but Will might just get enough help from other interested in the subject matter that he could come up with a theory that could be considered a contribution to the literature, even if it turned out to be a dead end (which it almost certainly will.)

So, Will, if you are reading over here, which you really should be, please consider this approach. I see it as the only way that you are going to come out of this with the slightest shred of dignity or credibility.

Once again:

1. Announce that you are going to leave the boards and finish up your work with no further public debate.

2. Finish your papers as best you can.

3. Have someone proofread them for you.

4. Make PDF versions of them.

5. Send out letters or e-mails to folks who have expressed interest in your work (and there are many) asking them if they would be willing to review you work informally and in confidence.

6. Send PDF copies of the paper to those who agree.

7. Work with these folks to get something that can perhaps eventually be published.

One thing about real academics is that they are usually very willing to help people who are genuinely interested in what they are interested in.

It might turn out that there really is not enough there to warrant publication. IMHO it would be better to know this and stop wasting your time rather than continue to be dawn and quartered on the boards.

Please think about this. I am pretty sure that any of the folks who are professional academics with interest and expertise in this area would be glad to help you and do so on confidence.

You can trust me that everyone involved in this theatre will be better off if you were to take this well meant suggestion.


May I suggest the Social Science Resource Network as a great place to self-publish what would be, in essence, working papers.

And, in a blatant act of self promotion I present my SSRN page:


http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsB ... _id=899149
_DrW
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _DrW »

sethpayne,

Another great idea. Thanks.

i was unaware of this facility for self publication.

Looks like a good fit for the kind of stuff Will does (or perhaps wishes he could do).

If I were Will, I would still try and get some professional help before putting anything out there that others could cite.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Kishkumen
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _Kishkumen »

sethpayne wrote:http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=899149


Nice try, sethpayne, but your bogus "credentials" will get you nowhere with the apologists. Yale? Piffle.

(On a serious note, thanks for the link giving me access to your work. Cool!)
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _Tator »

DrW I think you are giving a great suggestion to Will but from where I come from there is an old saying,

"You can lead a man to knowledge but you can't make him think."
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_Quasimodo
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _Quasimodo »

Drifting wrote:Will is frantically seeking some kind of offence or conspiracy to latch on to as an excuse for not publishing. This is his only means for maintaining the illusion that he has produced something worth publishing.

He could serialise it in the Deseret News.
He could self publish.
He could post it online.
He could present it at Fair.
He could present it to the Maxwell Institute for them to publish.
Etc

He won't.


All of this assumes that he has actually written anything. I may be wrong, but I don't think I've heard of anyone that has seen any of his work on this. Maybe he has been slaving away at his opus, but there is no evidence of it.

Maybe the MI would have published his work had he submitted anything.
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_MrStakhanovite
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Re: A Friendly Suggestion for Will Schryver (Really)

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Will needs to collaborate with George Miller, Kevin Graham, and the like, good scholarship must take place within a community of people. When a piece of research is a labor of love, you want to share it with anyone who even shows the slightest interest in reading it, because you want feedback.

Will keeping his stuff under wraps is a bit silly, this isn’t some cold war arms race, it is scholarship.
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