Killing in the name of...

[_Blixa]

Hold on there, Hoops. I said I pretty much agreed with Chap. Had I replied first, my response would be pretty much the same, even down to characterizing the position you seem to be articulating as simplistic. I think Chap's response is mildly more pugnacious than mine would have been, but I don't think its merely the retort of an a-hole. (Of course, I haven't followed this thread in its entirety, so I don't know the tenor of your previous exchanges with Chap.)

Regardless of how you would have responded, I am terribly interested in how you did respond. At your request, I'll take Chap's words as essentially your own.

I'm not sure how your explanation refutes my assertion. For an atheist, the only thing that is relevant is atheism.

Hoops, you 'know" me, right? We've had some nice chats and you've been very kind in your remarks on my writing and artwork. So do you think the only thing relevant to me is atheism?

[_ludwigm]

... the only thing relevant to me is atheism?

We have Frigyes Karinthy (25 June 1887 – 29 August 1938), who was an author, playwright, poet, journalist, and translator. (by the way not J.S. type translator...)

He said
"If I am alone in a room, I am human - one of the people. If one woman come in, I become a man. I am as man as far as that woman is a woman who came in."
(sorry, this may be a raw translation...)

I am an atheist - if there is something/somebody religious around me.

_________________
by the way something off from Karinthy:
"Love is a basket with one handle. Heavy to hold by one, so sometimes one carries it, sometimes the other."

[_Blixa]

... the only thing relevant to me is atheism?

We have Frigyes Karinthy (25 June 1887 – 29 August 1938), who was an author, playwright, poet, journalist, and translator. (by the way not J.S. type translator...)

He said
"If I am alone in a room, I am human - one of the people. If one woman come in, I become a man. I am as man as far as that woman is a woman who came in."
(sorry, this may be a raw translation...)

I am an atheist - if there is something/somebody religious around me.

That's a nice way to express the relevance, ludwig. I like it a great deal.
_________________
by the way something off from Karinthy:
"Love is a basket with one handle. Heavy to hold by one, so sometimes one carries it, sometimes the other."[/quote]

[_Hoops]

Hoops, you 'know" me, right?

I think so.

We've had some nice chats

Wonderful! I don't think we agree on much of anything, you are more educated than me, smarter than me, you have (I suspect) more worldly experience that relates to the discussions on this board, and yet we have had some great chats. I think we would be fast friends.

and you've been very kind in your remarks on my writing and artwork.

Um... I've tried to honest. Your writing and artwork is absolutely stunning. You're brilliantly talented and you have such a generous spirit that we are touched by what you offer.

So do you think the only thing relevant to me is atheism?

In this context, no. So obviously I wasn't stating my case very clearly, or you have excellent reasons for disagreeing. Even with all the things you mentioned above, an atheist has nothing outside himself to frame his social contract. This atheist may choose to frame his social contract in one way or another, but ultimately one chooses this framework based on his own intuition. What HE thinks is the only thing that is relevant. The deductions he has made is what motivates him.

[_Blixa]

So do you think the only thing relevant to me is atheism?

In this context, no. So obviously I wasn't stating my case very clearly, or you have excellent reasons for disagreeing. Even with all the things you mentioned above, an atheist has nothing outside himself to frame his social contract. This atheist may choose to frame his social contract in one way or another, but ultimately one chooses this framework based on his own intuition. What HE thinks is the only thing that is relevant. The deductions he has made is what motivates him.

Ok, now I'm finally getting something about where you are coming from. I don't have time right now to respond, but I will. I think my response will re-cover some of the ground that I quoted from Chap earlier, but I'll try to expand on it and show where I think you're over generalizing and missing a great deal about how individuals function in the world. Now I know that statement also seems pretty broad and general, but its the best I can do until I can use and explain some other terminology for talking about subjectivity.

Edited to add: also take a look at what ludwig posted and see if that give you a different perspective on "the individual."

[_Hoops]

Ok, now I'm finally getting something about where you are coming from. I don't have time right now to respond, but I will. I think my response will re-cover some of the ground that I quoted from Chap earlier, but I'll try to expand on it and show where I think you're over generalizing and missing a great deal about how individuals function in the world. Now I know that statement also seems pretty broad and general, but its the best I can do until I can use and explain some other terminology for talking about subjectivity.

I understood Chap's comments and I believe I have a notion where you're headed. But I am open to be taught.

Edited to add: also take a look at what ludwig posted and see if that give you a different perspective on "the individual."

I will

[_Mercury]

My ignorance is dwarfed by your ability to be a turd.

How we doing?

Well at least you are recognizing your ignorance. Atheism is not religion, try to actually extend your frame of reference.

[_Runtu]

This thread reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA

[_Hoops]

My ignorance is dwarfed by your ability to be a turd.

How we doing?

... try to actually extend your frame of reference.

Try to actually not act like an ass.