Happy Valley Photo Essay

[_MsJack]

I think Shades is aware of that, Kish.

I'm a little embarrassed that this thread is now about Ardis. That wasn't my intention in linking to the T&S blog where this all went down. She was far from the only person on that thread who was unnecessarily rude to me or who attacked me personally. (To her credit though, the commentator "Ellis" later apologized to me.)

As I tried to indicate in my response to Shades' initial comment, I don't see Ardis as "unhinged." We'd had a few icy exchanges prior to that thread and I'm sure she just let her pre-existent feelings for me get the better of her. I've long had a feeling that if I spent some time commenting around the Bloggernacle under an alias, and didn't mention my non-LDS status, and avoided feminist topics with her, we'd probably get along fine.

That brings us to the point I was trying to make though. Re: my comment #23 on the blog post I linked to, the exact same point has been made by LDS Bloggernacle regulars all over the place---namely, that the LDS church tries to pair motherhood with priesthood because it otherwise hasn't reserved any "special roles" that only women can perform the way it has reserved special roles that only men can perform. And yet, when I made the exact same point as a non-member, I elicited a choleric reaction from several people on the thread who proceeded to concentrate on the fact that I was a non-member. It wasn't that I got anything wrong (though several people initially tried to argue that), nor that I was rude about making the point. The outrage all seemed to focus in on my non-LDS status.

I remember a comment from an LDS woman at Feminist Mormon Housewives who was sneering at something that was allegedly found in Fascinating Womanhood, an admonishment for women to not let education erode one's femininity (or something to that effect). I pointed out that James E. Faust had actually said exactly that and provided a link. She immediately grew indignant and began defending Faust's talk as one of her most favorite talks ever. It didn't matter what the talk actually said. When it came from the loathsome Fascinating Womanhood, it was a contemptible notion. When the exact same thing came from an LDS General Authority, it was Gospel truth.

I think that a lot of Latter-day Saints are like that. Their reaction is based first and foremost on the identity of the speaker, and only afterward do they give any consideration to what's actually being said. A friend of mine once told me that this was exactly why Helen Whitney did not put church-affiliations in the captions of the people being interviewed for her PBS "The Mormons" special. She seemed to have caught onto this and wanted people to listen to what was being said and not decide what they thought based on whether the speaker was Mormon or not.

So, that's why I think Brian Shumway got such a volatile reaction to his photo essay. It was not that he actually got much wrong. It was just the indignation of an ex-member sharing accurate but less-than-favorable information about LDS life.

[_Kishkumen]

I think Shades is aware of that, Kish.

Sorry, just trying to change the subject.

[_Runtu]

MsJack,

I think that's exactly right. It's OK for us to complain about our own community, but we get upset when others do it. Up in the MADB quotes thread, there is something "selek" over on MADB posted when he thought he was talking to non-Mormon Rob Bowman. It was scathing and nasty and full of attacks on Bowman's character. When he realized he was talking to active Mormon Rob Osborn, he replaced his post with something that actually agreed with Osborn.

We here at MDB do the same thing. I can complain about the tone or content of the board to my heart's content, but when a believing Mormon does it, they get dumped on. At some point we have to get past the tribal loyalty.

[_Runtu]

But by all means, if I missed a social cue or failed to negotiate some social convention, then please inform me what it is so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

This is getting way out of proportion, Shades. And I agree that equating Ardis to Schryver was over the top; and comparing Blixa to Schryver's friends is pretty low, indeed.

Either way, MsJack's point is a good one: we don't mind criticizing ourselves, but when someone else does it, we get defensive.

[_harmony]

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the photos. They seemed to pretty much encapsulate the Mormon culture I've lived in for the last 40 years, and I didn't find them at all offensive.

[_Runtu]

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the photos. They seemed to pretty much encapsulate the Mormon culture I've lived in for the last 40 years, and I didn't find them at all offensive.

That's what I thought. It's just bizarre that some people think it was a hit piece trying to make Mormons look like white trash from Appalachia. Makes one wonder if those folks have ever been to Appalachia.

[_sock puppet]

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the photos. They seemed to pretty much encapsulate the Mormon culture I've lived in for the last 40 years, and I didn't find them at all offensive.

harm, what kind of a Mormon are you, then, if you don't take offense that Shumway's portrayal of Happy Valley life isn't all Ward and June Cleaver-ish?

[_harmony]

harm, what kind of a Mormon are you, then, if you don't take offense that Shumway's portrayal of Happy Valley life isn't all Ward and June Cleaver-ish?

The best kind? The kind that doesn't live anywhere near Happy Valley? The kind that is really sorry for anyone who does live in Happy Valley?

[_angsty]

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the photos. They seemed to pretty much encapsulate the Mormon culture I've lived in for the last 40 years, and I didn't find them at all offensive.

That's what I thought. It's just bizarre that some people think it was a hit piece trying to make Mormons look like white trash from Appalachia. Makes one wonder if those folks have ever been to Appalachia.

I know I keep hitting on this, but it really, really, bothers me. Not just because there is absolutely no truth to the analogy (in the least). But mostly because the comparison comes across as a negative value judgment about Appalachian cultures.

He [DCP, et al.] thinks he knows what "they" ["rural poor of Appalachia"] look like-- the way that they have appeared in the barrage of one-note media that exploits and objectifies them. "How dare Shumway make us look like them. We don't look like that."-- as if there's something terribly wrong and offensive about being associated with the appearance of them.

Incidentally, the only things those photos have in common with the cultures of Appalachia are the universals they have in common with communities across all of America. The photos were taken in suburbia for gawd's sake. Even if you're wanting to employ ethnocentric and ignorant stereotypes about Appalachian people, how can images of Utah suburbia possibly square with that?

The ethnocentrism and condescension is galling.

[_Fence Sitter]

I know I keep hitting on this, but it really, really, bothers me. Not just because there is absolutely no truth to the analogy (in the least). But mostly because the comparison comes across as a negative value judgment about Appalachian cultures.

He [DCP, et al.] thinks he knows what "they" ["rural poor of Appalachia"] look like-- the way that they have appeared in the barrage of one-note media that exploits and objectifies them. "How dare Shumway make us look like them. We don't look like that."-- as if there's something terribly wrong and offensive about being associated with the appearance of them.

Incidentally, the only things those photos have in common with the cultures of Appalachia are the universals they have in common with communities across all of America. The photos were taken in suburbia for gawd's sake. Even if you're wanting to employ ethnocentric and ignorant stereotypes about Appalachian people, how can images of Utah suburbia possibly square with that?

The ethnocentrism and condescension is galling.

It could have been worse, he could have complained the photos made the LDS look like the rural poor from Palmyra.