Why Are Leftists/Apostates Obsessed with Masturbation?

[_Shulem]

Iggy Pop?

In the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Paul O

[_Runtu]

So, please explain how a teaching of no dating until 16, strict celibacy before marriage, and complete monogamy and sexual fidelity after marriage "damaged" you and others.

You seriously think that is the sum total of the church's teachings about sexuality? Talk about intellectually unserious.

[_Zelder]

Yes, Droopy, I think the church's teachings about sexuality damaged me and others.

So, please explain how a teaching of no dating until 16, strict celibacy before marriage, and complete monogamy and sexual fidelity after marriage "damaged" you and others.

In addition to what others have said, you left out the part about no unnatural, impure or unholy practices in marriage. Couple that with no masturbation and you can really screw up a marriage. We might as well go all the way and cut off the clitorises of our daughters so that they can never enjoy the evil sensation of an orgasm.

The church has made a lot of improvement in their teachings on the law of chastity but they have a very ugly past and the present is still tainted. I see great value in making marriage covenants and saving sex for marriage but church leaders have taken it way too far. Many teachings are damaging.

[_Morley]

At least the middle school principal has some training.

And schools usually conduct a background check.

Why would the church need background checks when they have prayer and the power of the holy ghost?

[_Chap]

Yes it is, because few normal human beings except highly ideological leftists would not have implicit trust in the typical middle aged bishop or state president that no such thoughts would ever cross his mind. Normal human beings to not class all middle aged males - there friends, neighbors, and co-workers - as potential sexual predators and child molesters by definition.

That, as anyone with a thimble of education or awareness in the social and political history of the late 20th century knows perfectly well is the province of academic and popular gender feminism and its debased forms in the popular news and media culture.

I begin to suspect that you may not have any children. I do not move in 'leftist' circles at all, but all the parents I know include a precautionary principle in deciding what they will or will not let their children do.

Thus, for instance, I know that it is extremely unlikely that my daughter would risk molestation by a stranger if I let her walk home alone at night, but the fact that the occurrence of such molestation would be a very serious event that might have a long-term effect on her means that I feel justified in placing limits on her freedom, and in inconveniencing myself in going to pick her up. That does not mean I think the streets are full of rapists.

Once upon a time Catholic parents had no problem about their children of either gender being in circumstances where highly trained and disciplined clergy had special, authority sanctioned, supposedly sanctified, and often one-on-one access to them, whether in the confessional or out of it. Sadly, they have since learned that these circumstances are by no means as safe as they once thought.

[_Darth J]

And hooray for ipse dixit. However, a subject's place "in LDS theology" does not make it objectively true, or make it even reasonable or plausible. "LDS theology" also holds that the human race began with two people in Missouri circa 6,000 B.C.E. "LDS theology" also holds that the entire planet was covered with water a few thousand years ago, and that all human and animal life that now exists descended from the refugees on Noah's ark. "LDS theology" also holds that the origin of different languages in the world is God confusing people's speech at the tower of Babel. "LDS theology" also held, for 148 of its 181 years of existence, that Negroes were inferior to every other race on Earth. And so on.

Sometimes even Madalyn Murray 'O Hair could be more intellectually sophisticated than this.

Well, well, well. In a surprising turn of events that nobody saw coming, Droopy can't defend the infantile myths that the LDS Church teaches to be historical fact. So instead, he resorts to ad hominems that make sense only to himself (I've specifically said many times on this board that I believe in God, but he's comparing me to an atheist activist for some reason).

I never cease to be impressed by how you alternate between claiming to embrace legitimate scholarship and studies, but then reject it as agenda-driven and "leftist," depending on whether you perceive such things as supporting your value judgments.

I actually don't think that you even take most of your criticisms of me seriously. I think you do it because of a deep, seething hatred of the Church, the gospel, Jesus Christ, and anything that smacks of the slightest limitation on or cramping of the life and lifestyle you desire to lead.

I think that your god lies somewhere between Machiavelli, Nietzsche, and your own gut, and so it surprises me little that you find my philosophy so infuriating.

See, it's when Droopy said he doesn't think I even take my criticisms of him seriously that he should have stopped. How could I, or anyone, take anything about Droopy seriously? And who would dispute that "making fun of Droopy" is the Bloggernacle version of "carrying coals to Newcastle"?

Of all the unintentional comedy that internet Mormons provide, Droopy is in a class by himself. It is non-stop comedy gold to see the personification of all the stereotypes of a reactionary religious fanatic acted out here, except that Droopy isn't kidding. And that makes it even more hilarious. Droopy does not have the slightest idea what "life and lifestyle I desire to lead," nor does he have any idea what my political leanings are. But let's not factual bases get in the way of the hysterical shrieks of, "People who reject the truth claims of the LDS Church are all leftists!" "Everyone who doesn't think that pagan Egyptian funerary papyri really told the story of Abraham teaching Mormonism to a Negro Egyptian king is a socialist atheist who takes all their sex advice from Kinsey because Qui-Gon Jinn played him in that movie! Or something!"

And you know this recurring theme about apostates necessarily being "angry" and "infuriated"? This is the typical Mormon Nephi fantasy. Droopy wants to believe that people are angry at him and hate him for his exceeding righteousness. That's because the idea is unbearable to him that his actual online persona and a parody of his online persona would be indistinguishable.

Despite your references to "pop psychology," the scientific view that masturbation is normal and healthy is real psychology.

Its a philosophical opinion and belief within the highly secularized, secular humanistic, and long ago politically cleansed body of allied disciplines and modalities encompassing the field of counseling psychology, which is not science in any normative sense but "social" science, i.e., a philosophy of human behavior overlaid with a coating of empirical scientific methodology.'

Fascinating how drones like Darth who act like soldier ants end in the servile gulping down of the trendy certitudes of the "experts"...like himself, of course.

In summary, Droopy alternates between claiming to embrace legitimate scholarship and studies, but then rejects it as agenda-driven and "leftist," depending on whether he perceives such things as supporting his value judgments.

Darth didn't, of course, even stop to think about how "science" could come to any certain conclusions at all regarding the value judgements and related to masturation, as actual science has nothing to say about those.

Nor do I claim that I need science to direct me to my own conclusions as to whether normal, healthy human behavior needs to be demonized on the bases of old wive's tales and neo-Victorian neuroses about human sexuality. And I don't need a reactionary religious fanatic to suggest the false dilemma of the prudish self-loathing taught by the LDS Church, or being an uncontrolled sex addict, are the only choices available.

I also noticed the implicit circular argument embedded in the following statement:

Although masturbation is harmless, guilt created by the disapproval and punitive attitudes of other people may cause considerable distress and impair sexual performance.

You be sure and point out what is circular about that statement, okay? It's probably just leftist propaganda, anyway. It's just a truism that physicians and psychologists who have come to this conclusion are all socialists.

And Droopy, it really isn't a manifestation of an anti-Mormon or "leftist" agenda for normal people to find it extremely creepy for a middle-aged man to take a teenager into a closed office for a session of truth-or-dare.

Yes it is, because few normal human beings except highly ideological leftists would not have implicit trust in the typical middle aged bishop or state president that no such thoughts would ever cross his mind. Normal human beings to not class all middle aged males - there friends, neighbors, and co-workers - as potential sexual predators and child molesters by definition.

That, as anyone with a thimble of education or awareness in the social and political history of the late 20th century knows perfectly well is the province of academic and popular gender feminism and its debased forms in the popular news and media culture.

A fair try at appearing to know what your talking about, Darth, but you give away your game in every sentence.

This is another one of those responses that says more about Droopy than it does about me. I never implied that middle-aged men are presumptively sexual predators or child molesters. I said that the situation is creepy. Dressing it up as necessary because of the ecclesiastical authority the teenager's parents allow to be had over their child is even more creepy. The emotional and psychological harm of the invasion of privacy, superstitious shame, and anxiety that comes out of a middle-aged man sitting alone in an office playing truth-or-dare with a teenager is disturbing to normal people, Droopy. Since it would take a normal person to understand that, I am not at all surprised that this baffles you.

And it is at least as creepy for married people to submit to this kind of voyeuristic paternalism. "I have to tell this man about all the naughty sexual things I've done so he can decide if Jesus thinks I'm good enough to go inside a multi-million dollar trophy building and pantomime Freemasonry. But we're not a cult!"

By the way, Droopy, when you get done pontificating about how leftist/apostates (which you insanely believe to be synonymous) are obsessed with masturbation, maybe you would like to start yet another thread asking people to talk about what kind of pornography they like to watch.

[_Shulem]

By the way, Droopy, when you get done pontificating about how leftist/apostates (which you insanely believe to be synonymous) are obsessed with masturbation, maybe you would like to start yet another thread asking people to talk about what kind of pornography they like to watch.

It may surprise Droopy that I spend little time looking at porn. It's one of those things I dip into once in a while -- that's all. I think porn is useful to those who need it when they need it. It's all about personal preference.

Paul O

[_Buffalo]

No CFR forthcoming? That's all right, its not a requirement here to answer one.

Droopy thought that "little factories" was in reference to Korean sweatshops. :D

[_Buffalo]

I wonder how Droopy or BCspace would feel if the middle school principal took their daughters alone into a private room, closed the door, and started asking them if they masturbate. Or if they've ever had sex with animals.

Since I know of no incidences in the Church where this has happened, save in the bleating personal anecdotes of apostate bigots, the question is a bit moot.

Now take your oranges and put them back in your applecart.

Lying for the Lord will get you into heaven faster. Keep it up!

[_Buffalo]

Another damaging result of the the Church's anti-masturbation crusade since the 50's - women who don't masturbate before marriage will often have great difficulty orgasming after marriage. Masturbation is an important tool that helps women figure out exactly what will help them acheive orgasm.

In boys, it keeps their sex drive under control and helps prevent prostate cancer.