Bishop resigns from church

[_cafe crema]

The church in salt lake wants to silence him? Maybe the new bishop in his former ward should give him a platform in church so he can address all the members during sacrament meeting. Or maybe he can give a fireside.

You are trying to have it both ways, and not doing a particularly good job of it, either.

A bishop resigns and you say it is no big deal.

I ask why the church wants to silence him if it is no big deal.

You counter by setting up a strawman, suggesting if the church doesn't give him a public platform to air his grievances, the church isn't trying to silence him.

You are better than this.

You haven't read much Why me?

[_Quasimodo]

I was a Catholic, and my father gave me, when I was about ten years old, a booklet that was titled something like "The Queen's Answers to Questions about Sex". He was an Anglican converted to Catholicism at 14, when he believed his life was spared by prayers to Catholic Saints.

None of my young "flock" ever asked me such a question, but I'm pretty sure, going on memory, that I was very sympathetic with them if they had this "problem". If they had asked me, I would have replied that I did, and that I knew it wasn't easy to overcome. Masturbation is a pretty common "problem" among many missionaries, and when Loren Dunn "cleaned out" the Sydney Mission in the late '70s, he commented to my mission president that about "70%" of missionaries (in the Sydney Mission) "had this problem". The other factor that should be taken into account, is how many lied/justified it, because they weren't specifically asked, "do you masturbate?", but "are you morally clean?" So the rationale would be, "I haven't committed adultery, so I'm morally clean". There were all kinds of ways to dodge the question.

I was pretty honest, maybe naïvely so, and it may be why I never became an "assistant to the president". I suppose I could have lied my way to the top, but yes, I did have this "problem" on my mission, and I was open about it.

Wow!!! I am so impressed with your honesty!

I noted that you bracketed the word "problem" in quotes. This says a lot about you, Ray, and it's all good.

Thank you for your very honest answer. I hope your answer will serve as an example for those that don't have the courage to face their own insecurities.

Someday, maybe you will tell us the story of your father and how his life was spared.

[_why me]

I doubt I am the only one who finds contemptible your practice of dredging up personal disclosures made on this board and then using them to berate the poster while offering up your customary steaming piles of unsolicited advice.

You owe just me an apology.

Really? You do know that such a practice of dredging up personal disclosures on this board about my past posts is a national past time of this board? How often do I get the light cotton remark? How often do I get the catholic, Mormon remark? How often do I get the inactive Mormon remark? How often am I called a creep?

Do I thank you for coming to my defense? Or is your chivary only directed toward women and for those who may share your ideas? Here is the point: this board mocks and name calls all defenders of the LDS church. Perhaps you are an exception but perhaps not a fair exception. Such is the way it is on this board.

But of course you remain silent about this dredging up of my past disclosures. You owe me an apology for letting such posts slide by.

[_why me]

None of my Mission Presidents/stake presidents directly asked this question. The question was, "are you morally clean?", and any missionary who didn't understand that was living in La-La Land.

Thank you Ray. I said the same thing on the zee thread or other masturbation threads. My friends do the same by asking that question: Are you morally clean? Unfortunately I took a lot of hits from the 'fair, and open minded' critics on this board.

[_why me]

No kidding. His trolling of just me is disturbing.

And your light cotton remarks are not trolling me? I respond to many people on this board, not just to just me. And as a feminist, I am surprised that you also do not encouarge women to speak up more. To be silent is not a trait of feminism. Have you noticed? And it certainly isn't a trait of marxism.

[_RayAgostini]

Someday, maybe you will tell us the story of your father and how his life was spared.

My father was born into the Anglican faith, but when he was 14, he nearly died of a very serious illness. Apparently, some Catholic friends and relatives prayed on his behalf, and he knew about this, and eventually recovered. So he left the faith of his Mother, who was Anglican, because he really believed that the prayers of his Catholic friends saved his life.

In an ironic twist, perhaps, his eldest son, the brother whom I never met, died of rheumatic fever in 1948, at the age of 16. I was born six years later.

My father was always what I'd call a "man of faith", and always said his rosary, even after the loss of his most precious son. My mother was never a church goer, but had a firm and unwavering belief in God. It was through her that I think I acquired this faith, and she always taught me, "never doubt God", and his ability to answer prayers. She was comforted by this at the worst moment of her life, and she passed this experience on to me when I was a child, and I'll never forget it.

[_ludwigm]

I never asked ward members whether they masturbated. A bit uncouth, in my opinion. However, I sometimes did ask youth if they understood what masturbation is, and if they didn't, I'd briefly explain it.

The appropriate steps in teaching:
- explain
- show
- exercise
- verify (check? test? my dictionary can't help me...)

[_Themis]

by the way six weeks is more then enough time to see that the evidence is clearly against the church. As such, some can mentally get there quickly while others may take years before getting to that point.

I am sure that six weeks is plenty of enough time if one wants it to be. However, regardless what brigham said in the journal of discourses which has been sitting in members libraries for quite some time without much of a problem or what Joseph Smith did or did not do, has nothing to do with truth claims of the LDS church.

Joseph Smith was prone to anger and many of the flock found this behavior shocking for a prophet. Some found him looking not like a prophet. Others found him prone to joviality. Back in the day people had many reasons for leaving the church. And even Joseph Smith himself claimed that he was not very righteous as recorded in my sig line. So what?

The evidence is clearly not against the church.

I noticed you ignored my question about his stated intentions of why he wrote a letter to the members of his ward. Doesn't help what you want to believe about him. It's to bad you wont be fair minded, but then I have seen to many posts from you to expect that. Six weeks is more then enough time to research most of the available evidence that shows that the church is not what it claims to be. How long each takes in coming to grips with the evidence varies depending on many factors. Some can come to grips with the reality that the church is not true in a matter of weeks.

[_Jason Bourne]

Just me sits quietly in class thinking just how stupid it all sounds, keeps quiet about issues she has a different take on and then comes here to post her mockings. Is that managing one's beliefs or is it being a hypocrite. Here is the point: all know my position within the church, especially in my ward and with my friends. I am no coward or hypocrite. And I have no fear and I have never beend disciplined or had an invite into the bishops office.

Tell us Why me, in the last five years how often have you attended the LDS Church? What callings do you have? What are you doing in your ward? Do you hold the priesthood, etc, etc.

[_consiglieri]

Really? You do know that such a practice of dredging up personal disclosures on this board about my past posts is a national past time of this board? How often do I get the light cotton remark? How often do I get the catholic, Mormon remark? How often do I get the inactive Mormon remark? How often am I called a creep?

Do I thank you for coming to my defense? Or is your chivary only directed toward women and for those who may share your ideas? Here is the point: this board mocks and name calls all defenders of the LDS church. Perhaps you are an exception but perhaps not a fair exception. Such is the way it is on this board.

But of course you remain silent about this dredging up of my past disclosures. You owe me an apology for letting such posts slide by.

Maybe I can help you with this by giving you some unsolicited advice.

First, you are the one who has behaved badly toward Just Me. That is why you owe her the apology.

I am not asking any poster who did not come to her defense to apologize to her for your bad acts. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

I have made absolutely zero comments about your being a creep, an inactive Mormon, a Catholic-Mormon, nor have I referenced your youthful light cotton fetish. Are you saying I should apologize to you for something I have not done?

Helpful hint--If you insist on giving supercillious advice to people about how they should be "better" Mormons and how they should act in Church, you should realize you are putting at issue your relationship with the Church and how observant you yourself are.

Just a thought.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

P.S. Even if you were active in the LDS Church and completely observant, your criticisms of others would still be poor form.