The true meaning of Christmas: acrosome reaction

[_huckelberry]

Huckleberry,

Jesus is God, no?

A zygote contains chromosomes from the ovum and another, 3rd party material, no?

I think you are persuing the creation of your own private mythology here. It would not make sense for me argue with it. In fact I am a bit curious as to how you proceed. However it was you who brought the pope into the story. Just to clarify what sort of things the pope would consider I mention the traditional views about the incarnation.

Checking the Catholic catechism to quote the statement from the council of Chalcedon.
"We confess that one the same Christ, Lord ,and only begotten Son, is to be acknowledged in two natures without confusion, change division or seperationl. The distiction beween the natures was never abolished by their union, but was preserved as they came togher in oner person."

In tradtional view Jesus was God from eternity. He did not become God when born of Mary. He took on a true human person born of Mary.

Speaking for myself the genuine humanness of Jesus is abolutely essential to my faith in Jesus, or even to say my interest in him.

[_huckelberry]

I seem to remember a dove involved somewhere, flying up Mary's skirt? (Maybe I'm wrong). Maybe the the dove intermediary cushioned the shock.

Skirt? sounds like some cartoon somewhere. There was a dove which descended upon Jesus when John baptized him. I am pretty sure that would be what you are remembering.

[_zeezrom]

Huckleberry,

I recall the Pope Pius XII set the Assumption of Mary as official doctrine some time ago.

[_huckelberry]

Huckleberry,

I recall the Pope Pius XII set the Assumption of Mary as official doctrine some time ago.

I am pretty sure that what I have said does not conflict with any aspect of the doctrine of the assumption of Mary. Being Protestant I do not have a particular commitment to belief in the assumption of Mary. I do view it as at least possible.

I am pretty sure however that Marys dna would give her the same potential to die and feed worms as every other human being. Mary being taken bodily into heaven unlike the rest of us would be an act of God employing Gods power and decision.

[_Buffalo]

Could any, run of the mill, matured ovum handle fusing with the sperm of an infinite, all-powerful God?

I would guess the answer is a resounding no. Acrosome reaction requires the lock and key of same species. For the zygote to survive, the material of the ovum must contain the ingredients to fuse with the incoming cell and continue nourishing the new life during the critical moments of replication.

In summary, the motherly portion of the zygote must contain God-species specific material in order to survive. Mary must have been part God before the process began.

The Pope was partially inspired in his proclamation of the Assumption of Mary. The missing piece of the Assumption doctrine is this: Mary was not raised to heaven by a power outside herself. She propelled herself into heaven.

Merry Cristmas,

Zee.

T.S. Quint: But they're engaged.

Brodie: Doesn't matter, can't happen.

T.S. Quint: Why not? It's bound to come up.

Brodie: It's impossible! Lois Lane could never have Superman's baby. Do you think her fallopian tubes could handle his sperm? I guarantee you that when he comes during sex, he probally blows a load like a shotgun blast... right through her back! And if by chance Lois does get pregnent, what about her womb? Do you think it's strong enough to carry his child?

T.S. Quint: Sure, why not?

Brodie: He's an alien, for Christ sake. His Kyrptonian biological makeup is enhanced by earth's yellow sun. If Lois gets a tan, the kid could kick right through her stomach. Only someone like Wonder Woman has a strong enough uterus to carry his kid. The only way Superman could bang regular chicks is if he does it with a kryptonite condom, but that would kill him.

T.S. Quint: How is it that I go from the verge of hot Floridian sex with Brandi to man of steel coital debates with you in the food court?

Brodie: Cookie stand isn't part of the food court.

T.S. Quint: Of course it is.

Brodie: The food court is downstairs. The cookie stand is upstairs. It not like we're talking quantum physics here.

T.S. Quint: The cookie stands counts as an eatery, eateries are part of the food court.

Brodie: BS! Eateries that operate within the designated square downstairs count as food court. Anything outside, of said designated square, counts as an autonomous unit for mid-mall snacking. Now, if you're going to wax intellectual about the subject...

[_LDSToronto]

I want to play, too.

Allow me to take the contrary position by falling back to the LDS concept of god and the attributes revealed:

1. Elohim is a physical, material being that has the appearance of a man.
2. Elohim is a perfected human being.

What can be derived from these two theological facts? Let's take a look:

1. At some point, Elohim was a male human being
2. As a male human being, Elohim had testicles and a penis
3. With those testicles and a penis, Elohim could successfully impregnate a woman

Let's a take a few steps further, into speculative territory. A perfected human being is still a human being. Thus, a perfected male is still a male; reproductive organs and capabilities are intact post-perfection. A perfected human being is not a different species, rather, a perfected human being is most likely a human being with some type of altered biological makeup.

With that in mind, it is not beyond speculation to assume that Elohim, via normal intercourse with Mary, was able to impregnate her. Perfected human male sperm and imperfect female ovum could unite.

We do know that to be in Elohim's presence one must undergo a transformation - permanent of temporary. It is unclear what that change is, but let's presume that one's body must be elevated to some level of perfection in order to visit with Elohim. For Mary to be an active participant in the conjugal act, her body must have been temporarily transfigured to accept both the physical act of intercourse with a perfected male and perhaps to aid in the union of perfected sperm and imperfected ovum.

H.

[_zeezrom]

Love it, LDST.

I question your claim that the change in Mary should (or could) have been temporary. Would you mind explaining why a woman needs to be taken from human to divine then back to human again?

[_LDSToronto]

Love it, LDST.

I question your claim that the change in Mary should (or could) have been temporary. Would you mind explaining why a woman needs to be taken from human to divine then back to human again?

It's not the fact that Mary is a woman that necessitates this transfiguration, it is the fact that Mary is an imperfect human being. I can't think of a case, save maybe the brother of Jared, where God revealed himself without first transfiguring the person to whom he revealed himself.

Since the purpose of Christ's existence was to experience humanity and to use divinity to save humankind, it makes sense to me that Mary would have to be an imperfect human in order to create this human/god hybrid.

H.

[_zeezrom]

Since the purpose of Christ's existence was to experience humanity and to use divinity to save humankind, it makes sense to me that Mary would have to be an imperfect human in order to create this human/god hybrid.

Thanks LDSTee. Your suggestion is logical.

But something is tugging at me. Something strong and calm. Who is it? Is it you, Mary?

Let me make a proposition. There was no God giving Mary a key for zygote formation. There was no push to transfiguration. Like the creation of the Universe, the God of heaven created itself. She created life from within herself. God is the creator who gave us life.

[_LDSToronto]

Since the purpose of Christ's existence was to experience humanity and to use divinity to save humankind, it makes sense to me that Mary would have to be an imperfect human in order to create this human/god hybrid.

Thanks LDSTee. Your suggestion is logical.

But something is tugging at me. Something strong and calm. Who is it? Is it you, Mary?

Let me make a proposition. There was no God giving Mary a key for zygote formation. There was no push to transfiguration. Like the creation of the Universe, the God of heaven created itself. She created life from within herself. God is the creator who gave us life.

Mary reproduced asexually? And she was able to do so because she was a god? Well, it's as good a theory as any if we are speculating....

But, let me add one more theory in there... Maybe Mary and Joseph made the beast with two backs before they were customarily allowed to and this whole "An angel summoned me and God and I got it on" story was just that.... a story.

I mean, is that a possibility worth considering?

H.