Atheist facism in action.

[_Buffalo]

If there is a nativity scene on public property and it has existed for 60 years, why change it?

Because it violates the Bill of Rights. Why do you hate the Bill of Rights?

[_Buffalo]

It makes no difference what the founding fathers said. The pilgrims came first as did their puritanism. Whatever the founding fathers said at any given time makes no difference to the christian tradition that has been apart of american life. Which is one reason no one cared two cents if a nativity scene was on the town hall grounds. The jewish people did not care. So, why should you? And why should atheists? What happened to the nativity scene in the OP was a tragedy for atheists. But then again, atheists can be facsistic when it comes to attempting to destroy traditions.

I do remember saying my prayers in public school when I was 6 as a class. It was before the start of school. No problem.

Why do you continually seek to persecute and denigrate those who don't share your faith? :(

[_Bond James Bond]

If there is a nativity scene on public property and it has existed for 60 years, why change it?

The Constitution is older. Specifically the 1st Amendment.

It was put there when americans honored the christmas tradition because america was a christian country.

Yes, the 1950s. When America was extra religious as a response to those atheist commie Soviets we were Cold War not-fighting with.

Now of course, it is much different.

And you lament every moment of it, don't you? With the science and progress and all. Terrible.

The atheist postmodernist never ceases to destory other people religious traditions. Americans need to get a life.

Yes because worshiping a random middle eastern God that was picked out of a hat and promoted to the status of state religion by the Roman Empire and the successor kingdoms of Europe, where it was warped to any purpose including justification of conquest, enslavement, and war. Yes worshiping that antiquated religion is a life.

[_Bond James Bond]

It makes no difference what the founding fathers said. The pilgrims came first as did their puritanism.

Actually the Vikings came first. Hail Odin!

Also...what about Native American beliefs? Bigger hmm.

[_cafe crema]

There is a big difference between a Christmas tree (which is pagan in origin and has lost any religious significance) and the depiction of the birth of one religious group's god.

I'm sure many of the founding fathers would have preferred no depiction of religious iconography on government property.

Thomas Jefferson:

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors." -- Jefferson's letter to John Adams, April 11 1823

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

John Adams:

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

James Madison:

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." -1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

Thomas Paine:

"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.

Benjamin Franklin:

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."

"In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it."

It makes no difference what the founding fathers said. The pilgrims came first as did their puritanism. Whatever the founding fathers said at any given time makes no difference to the christian tradition that has been apart of american life. Which is one reason no one cared two cents if a nativity scene was on the town hall grounds. The jewish people did not care. So, why should you? And why should atheists? What happened to the nativity scene in the OP was a tragedy for atheists. But then again, atheists can be facsistic when it comes to attempting to destroy traditions.

I do remember saying my prayers in public school when I was 6 as a class. It was before the start of school. No problem.

The Puritans would never have allowed a Nativity scene to be displayed, they may even have prevented it being displayed in someones private property.

"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."

From the records of the General Court,
Massachusetts Bay Colony
May 11, 1659

Early American history is not a good place to look for tolerance of varied displays of religious exercise.

[_Panopticon]

It makes no difference what the founding fathers said. The pilgrims came first as did their puritanism. Whatever the founding fathers said at any given time makes no difference to the christian tradition that has been apart of american life. Which is one reason no one cared two cents if a nativity scene was on the town hall grounds. The jewish people did not care. So, why should you? And why should atheists? What happened to the nativity scene in the OP was a tragedy for atheists. But then again, atheists can be facsistic when it comes to attempting to destroy traditions.

I do remember saying my prayers in public school when I was 6 as a class. It was before the start of school. No problem.

You argued that the founding fathers would have approved of the nativity scene on government property, but you say that their recorded opinions on the subject of religion are irrelevant?

You appear to approve of the Puritans. Read some history books. Their religious oppression was only one step removed from the Taliban. We should be embarrassed by that heritage.

I hope you have the opportunity to live in a country where you are a religious minority. You will then understand why it is wrong to force children to pray to a particular god, regardless of their religious beliefs.