A Talk Last Night With My Daughter

[_Runtu]

More of the same? Honestly, just having someone who can talk through things in a nonjudgmental way is a pretty great gift you can give her.

One of the greatest things about my "apostasy" is that my kids feel comfortable talking about the church honestly and without worrying that I will judge them either way. That is priceless, and I echo Blixa's advice to just keep talking (see my signature below).

[_consiglieri]

I don't see women playing a secondary role at all in church. . . . In the LDS church the man has the head but the woman has the neck.

Also, what is your wife's opinion about women in the church? She may have been a good one to have your dauther have a talk with.

I second Just Me's gag reflex.

Of course women play a secondary role in the LDS Church. To see otherwise is to see an emperor's clothes, man.

Just ask yourself the following two questions:

1. Could the LDS Church, as currently operated, function without women?

2. Could the LDS Church, as currently operated, function without men?

See what I mean about secondary?

And my wife, being neither blind nor a drooling idiot, also sees that LDS women are treated as inferior to LDS men.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

Tell her to post here.

I confess the thought crossed my mind. Most of the folks here (you definitely included) are intelligent and well read. I have been made better for my interactions here.

But I didn't want to go for the nuclear option just yet.

You know how dads can feel all protective about their daughters.

And for the record, I was not massaging my daughter's shoulders during out discussion, or playing with her hair, or rubbing lotion on her feet.

Just in case anybody was wondering.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

The president of the church is not some kind of mircophone through which god speaks.

I totally agree with you, Zelder, and mentioned something along these lines during our discussion. (It got kind of long and when I saw her eyeballs rolling back in her head, I asked if I had said enough and she quickly said, "Yes!")

I told her many Mormons think God is always talking to his prophets and apostles, that revelation comes daily, and no move is made without divine direction.

I told her I used to think that. But in the last several decades, I have changed my view to believing that God got the whole thing started, but now spends a lot of his time just watching with the occasional palm slap to the head.

Unfortunately, this view makes equal treatment for blacks and women something God doesn't feel hard pressed to intervene on. I am far from comfortable with the idea.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

They have more answers than you think. If people would follow their advice, our world would be a better place.

Back in the late 50's/early 60's, when the Church found out that 5,000 to 7,000 Nigerians had been converted to Mormonism through pamphlets and reading materials alone, the advice of the General Authorities was to leave the situation alone and not even baptize them because the priesthood ban meant no church structure could be put in place.

Many of these remarkable Nigerians perished in the 1967 Nigerian-Biafran War.

(I am reading David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism currently and thoroughly enjoying it.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

Is she going to do graduate work in Sociology?

She is actually trying to get a job in law enforcement and currently has a long-standing application pending with the border patrol.

Her long-range goal is to be a profiler with the FBI.

Maybe it would be good practice for her to post here, after all . . .

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Blixa]

They have more answers than you think. If people would follow their advice, our world would be a better place.

Back in the late 50's/early 60's, when the Church found out that 5,000 to 7,000 Nigerians had been converted to Mormonism through pamphlets and reading materials alone, the advice of the General Authorities was to leave the situation alone and not even baptize them because the priesthood ban meant no church structure could be put in place.

Many of these remarkable Nigerians perished in the 1967 Nigerian-Biafran War.

(I am reading David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism currently and thoroughly enjoying it.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

There's another African incident under McKay's tenure that I wonder if you've stumbled across. This involved an initially friendly African country who permitted missionaries in the early-to-mid-sixties, but changed their mind when the son of the ruler or other high government official, studying abroad in the US, stepped into a local ward house. Perusing the pictures of missionaries displayed on the wall, he asked someone why there were no black missionaries. He got told why.

(I am going on memory here and may have a few details wrong.)

[_consiglieri]

I remember reading that, as well. You have a good memory.

I am not sure if that was Nigeria, too, and they eventually got over that hurdle only to drop the whole thing when they were on the brink of victory.

I think the "victory" had to do with the mission president getting a permanent visa.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_LDSToronto]

You can show her these pictures from the congo:

http://grammyandpapafrogley.blogspot.co ... iling.html

Ask her what do these people know that she doesn't. It seems that the priesthood ban has no affect on these people in the blog.

You can also show her these videos:

http://www.blacklds.org/mormon-africa

Today's converts are tomorrow's inactives. Notice how the one white guy in the crowd didn't step into the water?

H.

[_LDSToronto]

Tell her to post here.

I want this to be said again, we need more young educated women on this forum. I'm tired of the same old sausage party everynight with Paul Osborne and LDSToronto.

Hey, pal, this place ain't your personal ApostateMingle.com.

(if you need a wingman, call me)

H.