Would gay people not survive evolution

[_bcspace]

It's true. At best, homosexuality is an aberration. Most likely, it's a deep dark sin. Gay people cannot have kids via sexual reproduction. If they did, they're not gay.

Gay men can get erections and ejaculate into the vaginas of consenting straight and lesbian women.

Then they can't possibly be gay.

[_CaliforniaKid]

The dominant view among scientists last time I checked was that in vitro hormones are the dominant biological factor determining sexual orientation. There may be a genetic component as well, but I'm not aware of any strong evidence for that. If there is no genetic component, then homosexuality would be unaffected by evolution except insofar as evolution affects in vitro hormones. Probably the incidence of homosexuality in the population would be too small to trigger an evolutionary change in reproductive hormones, even if it were true that gays made no contribution to kin-group survival.

But, of course, gays do make a contribution. Even if they don't reproduce (which many of them do), childless males are freed up to provide a variety of services to their kin groups, including helping to raise the children of others. Thus a small incidence of homosexuality might actually be evolutionarily beneficial at the level of group selection.

[_DarkHelmet]

Even if they don't reproduce (which many of them do), childless males are freed up to provide a variety of services to their kin groups, including helping to raise the children of others. Thus a small incidence of homosexuality might actually be evolutionarily beneficial at the level of group selection.

I was talking to BC Space about this, and he didn't think it would be wise to allow gay men around children.

[_Rambo]

Wouldn't the fact that there are gay people prove that they do survive evolution.

We do not have time for your logic or reason

The argument for him is it's a choice after they are born nit genetics. He thinks gay people would've died off cause they don't have the genes.

[_CaliforniaKid]

I was talking to BC Space about this, and he didn't think it would be wise to allow gay men around children.

Given the choice between a gay man and a straight man, I'd probably prefer my children be raised by the gay man. Gay men's brains and culture resemble women's, and as a result they tend to be more nurturing and less aggressive than straight men. Many of the norms of heterosexual masculinity and partriarchy in our culture are, quite frankly, poisonous.

[_LDSToronto]

I was talking to BC Space about this, and he didn't think it would be wise to allow gay men around children.

Given the choice between a gay man and a straight man, I'd probably prefer my children be raised by the gay man. Gay men's brains and culture resemble women's, and as a result they tend to be more nurturing and less aggressive than straight men. Many of the norms of heterosexual masculinity and partriarchy in our culture are, quite frankly, poisonous.

I don't know if it translates to gay couples, but children raised by lesbian couples are shown to be better-adjusted.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm having a discussion with my Mormon friend and he is saying gay people would not survive evolution cause they can't have kids. Does anyone know much about this?

It's true. At best, homosexuality is an aberration. Most likely, it's a deep dark sin. Gay people cannot have kids via sexual reproduction. If they did, they're not gay.

That doesn't make good sense, bcspace. You are mixing up sexuality with the ability to reproduce. Of course same sex couples cannot reproduce with each other. People who are gay can and do reproduce with the opposite sex via intercourse, surrogacy, IVF and artificial insemination.

Just like heterosexual couples do.

[_Jersey Girl]

CK

Gay men's brains and culture resemble women's,

Disagree. While this may be true for many, I doubt that it can be said to be true of all gay men. You are essentially saying that the gay male isn't influenced by testosterone as is the heterosexual male.

I have to disagree with that.

[Guest]

I'm having a discussion with my Mormon friend and he is saying gay people would not survive evolution cause they can't have kids. Does anyone know much about this?

It's true. At best, homosexuality is an aberration. Most likely, it's a deep dark sin. Gay people cannot have kids via sexual reproduction. If they did, they're not gay.

BCspace makes the common mistake of presuming/asserting that external sexual behavior is always an accurate reflection of an individual's inner sexual orientation. For many of us unencumbered by a religious need to believe otherwise, that is simply and obviously false. Many people under extreme circumstances (including psychological factors, religious factors, and even the influence of physical factors such as imprisionment or alcoholic influence) may engage in sexual activities that do not reflect their innate orientation.

Gay men father children all the time. I am one of thousands who have, and have had the priviledge of interacting with many amazing gay dads through several gay fathers' associations. Lesbian women bear children all the time. I have known many. And yet, I am not sexually aroused by my wife--and never was. Through a combination of enough physical stimulation and imagining men in my head, I was able to perform to climax with my wife to father children--and that experience is common to many, many gay fathers I've associated with. Our heterosexual actions that led to our fatherhood is not an indication of a bisexual orientation. The fact that, for a period, I labeled myself bisexual as I myself struggled to understand my own sexuality didn't change the fact that I had never had a wet dream or fantasized or even became sexaully aroused by a woman. My ignorance simply led me to make gramatical mistakes that are similar to those that BC continues to willfully make, given his religious paradigm (one that most of us here share or once shared).

Sexual orientation is not merely passed on genetically from parent to offspring as a direct genetic reflection of parental orientation. As others have said, modern science is confirming more and more that homosexuality is caused by genetic triggers that are switched on through a combination of hormones in a developing fetus's uterin environment. Straight people have gay children all the time... And gay people have straight children all the time. I'd imagine that some gay and lesbian parents raise kids that are more advantaged than their straight-parent peers; and some gay and lesbian parents raise kids that are more disadvantaged than their straight-parent peers. In my view, good parenting has little to do with whom one is sexually attracted to.

To suggest otherwise is simple ignorance of the facts about sexual orientation.

Daniel2

[_Jersey Girl]

Even if they don't reproduce (which many of them do), childless males are freed up to provide a variety of services to their kin groups, including helping to raise the children of others. Thus a small incidence of homosexuality might actually be evolutionarily beneficial at the level of group selection.

I was talking to BC Space about this, and he didn't think it would be wise to allow gay men around children.

Is it okay for gay men to be around their own children?