Speaking Up In Church

[_consiglieri]

Somehow this softened my wife, to see the RSP, and other well known ward members, in a bar, dancing and having fun.

This totally reminds me of a song from Golden Boy:

This is the life, here's where the living is,
Come have some fun, I'll lead the way.
This is the life, they've kept you in a box,
Break down the walls, come out and play.

I think a lot of Mormons could benefit from not being so uptight.

Many seem to focus more on being "right" than on being "honest."

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_LDSToronto]

Nobody is disputing that.
The point is that to make this list you have to be a drone who is prepared to stick rigidly to the manual content and nothing but the manual content.

LDStoronto had a problem with it. If you read the link, you will see there is leeway given to the teacher when questions and statements are made. Once a teacher asks a question he or she has no idea where it will lead.

The point is, asking questions or making comments that takes the conversation outside the correlated material or introduces controversy brands you a rogue.

The nice thing is, once you've done this a couple of times, you pretty much are given carte blanche to say what you will in church.

H.

[_Yoda]

No one else had any comment about the change being pointed out?

My wife is a very TBCM (True Blue Chapel Mormon) who instantly becomes hostile defensive whenever the line is crossed. The line being ANYTHING that triggers the cog-dis of Chapel Mormon conditioning.

In the old cafeteria, I tried to discuss with DCP the ways a man in his position might be able to influence Chapel Mormon's for their own protection/good (i.e. with his weekly news article). The idea being to soften the blow of the truth when exposed to it by sources that one can no longer simply write off as anti-mormon.

We all know the personal struggle, the spousal issues, the children, friends, work etc. that are inherent with the journey from TBM to where-ever that leads. If the potential for shell-shock damage can somehow be reduced over a longer gentler time, in a safer environment … then maybe you (NOM's) should consider pushing the limits a bit more.

Not with any intent to shock, or to prove or whatever, but with the intention of love and desire to help and smooth a transition, which to me, seems all but inevitable with today's technology. I believe the day of the Chapel Mormon is limited … maybe to my generation. What of the rest, what will their journey be?

I think finding as gentle a way as possible to introduce/plant the seed of the hard cog-dis issues to ward members would be a good thing. Where do you want them to hear it from? Knowing that others you rub-elbows with every Sunday struggle with the same knowledge/issues has strength.

I think you had a perfect opportunity, with yet another instructor (how many can they continue to black-list) to introduce one of the tougher issues to the class. For example, simply asking some questions:

Is not scripture sacred, why, after all these years, would they be changing stuff?

See if anyone else in the class has information on the topic and try and let others bring out the "anti-mormon" things they have heard.

Maybe just leave it at that, so when people do hear of the DNA issues, they already have some exposure to it.

I say, push the envelope a bit, not for the good of the church but for the good of those you love.

You bring out some really excellent thoughts, Rock Slider. :-)

I agree that it is important to try and do this

I think that, beyond asking questions in class, another way to incorporate new ideas is through different types of social activities. You mentioned in another portion of the thread, an example that your TBM wife had with enjoying some time at a bar with other LDS friends who were performing in the band.

In my music studio, I have a couple of students who are Church members. The majority are not. All of my students, however, know that I'm Mormon. However, I am very open to the arts, particularly various musical theater works. Some TBM's might think that several of the works I allow my students to perform are a little on the racy side. However, the bishop's daughter took from me until she graduated from High School, and there were no complaints. I actually got a couple of referrals from them! LOL

[_RockSlider]

This totally reminds me of a song from Golden Boy:

This is the life, here's where the living is,
Come have some fun, I'll lead the way.
This is the life, they've kept you in a box,
Break down the walls, come out and play.

I think a lot of Mormons could benefit from not being so uptight.

Many seem to focus more on being "right" than on being "honest."

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

The saddest part, and hence the most important to seek for change, is what is viewed/accepted as constituting worthiness.

If there is a God, he/she is not pleased with all of their "boxed" children … such a waste.

What parent, with a child asking for bread, gives them a stone?

Stone boxes of church worthiness … I say break them.

[_why me]

The point is, asking questions or making comments that takes the conversation outside the correlated material or introduces controversy brands you a rogue.

The nice thing is, once you've done this a couple of times, you pretty much are given carte blanche to say what you will in church.

H.

I think tha rogue is too strong a word. But they may think the person different. The correlated material is there but the lesson can lead to other areas too. In my link, it states that if a good discussion is occuring, the teacher should not end it to go back to the next part of the lesson. He or she should let it continue. There is leeway.

And you are right in your last part of your post. You do have carte blanche to say what you will in church after a couple of times. And there is nothing wrong in that.

[_why me]

For consig:

The problem with the term native american:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans

And why american indian may have been the better choice.

[_sock puppet]

Nobody is disputing that.
The point is that to make this list you have to be a drone who is prepared to stick rigidly to the manual content and nothing but the manual content.

LDStoronto had a problem with it. If you read the link, you will see there is leeway given to the teacher when questions and statements are made. Once a teacher asks a question he or she has no idea where it will lead.

The point is, asking questions or making comments that takes the conversation outside the correlated material or introduces controversy brands you a rogue.

The nice thing is, once you've done this a couple of times, you pretty much are given carte blanche to say what you will in church.

H.

Quite true. Growing up, there was a 'crack pot', a retired man in his 70s, in my home ward. He really jumped the shark during a F&TM when he broke down in tears while thanking god for his bees (beekeeping being his hobby). The snickering from the Aaronic priesthood on the back bench was audible throughout the entire chapel.

[_Runtu]

I think tha rogue is too strong a word. But they may think the person different. The correlated material is there but the lesson can lead to other areas too. In my link, it states that if a good discussion is occuring, the teacher should not end it to go back to the next part of the lesson. He or she should let it continue. There is leeway.

And you are right in your last part of your post. You do have carte blanche to say what you will in church after a couple of times. And there is nothing wrong in that.

Nah, "rogue" is not too strong. Every ward has someone who monopolizes the time in Gospel Doctrine and testimony meetings with their hobbies, gospel or not. In my ward in California, we had a woman who preached veganism and respect for all animal life, including houseflies and spiders. In Utah, a woman wove Birch Society conspiracies theories into everything. In Texas, a man mentioned his "close encounter" with a UFO every time he could. And of course, in all of those wards, there were people who brought up controversial church history stuff enough that everyone pretty much ignored them.

It's not cult-like to realize that sometimes there is no point into voicing a contrary position. I say speak up when you have something meaningful that will have a positive outcome.