Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah and Korash ...Really?

[_mfbukowski]

And so continues the wacky legacy of Walter Martin.

In all fairness to the WMM forum, they banned him.

That speaks volumes!

[_mfbukowski]

The challenge to you (and/or actual Christians) is to set forth a cogent argument as to why God would want his people to have an English transliteration of an Egyptian breathing permit.

Seems a strange challenge. It makes me want to ask ... Why would God use such an Obscure document as a catalyst? At this point in the game, Joseph Smith had much experience with direct revelation (i.e. D&C). If it would have been stated more along the lines as "I looked upon the scrolls and my eyes were opened …"

But it just was not presented this way.

I think Joseph lacked confidence to "translate" an entire book by revelation alone and so needed "props" which he probably genuinely believed he was "translating".

[_Themis]

I think Joseph lacked confidence to "translate" an entire book by revelation alone and so needed "props" which he probably genuinely believed he was "translating".

It amazes me sometimes the lengths we can go to convince ourselves of things obviously incorrect. Joseph didn't seem to lack confidence when seeking for treasure. I would think if he really did see God, Jesus, and an angels several times he would easily have enough confidence. It also does not answer why Joseph would need a prop for the Book of Abraham but not one for the Book of Moses which he had already done years before. Funny how far we will go sometimes with these things.

[_consiglieri]

Faith is the capacity to believe things you know are not true.

[_Themis]

Faith is the capacity to believe things you know are not true.

If that's true then it can't be from God. Maybe Satan. :) Very funny though

[_Themis]

I hear what you are saying, Relief Society.

I can envision a scenario where Joseph Smith mistakenly thought he actually was translating writings of Abraham, and the breathing permit served as a catalyst. (And an expensive catalyst, at that.)

I never could buy into that theory. Which is more likely. That Joseph was making it up, or that God thought it would be funny to give Joseph a true story knowing Joseph was mistaking the story being on the papyri and that this would cause no end of trouble later on. Given all the other evidence against the Book of Mormon, Zelph, treasure seeking, polyandry, etc it became obvious which was far more likely. It also became more obvious that I was misinterpreting my spiritual expereinces to fit what I was taught and wanted to believe.

[_consiglieri]

Faith is the capacity to believe things you know are not true.

If that's true then it can't be from God. Maybe Satan. :) Very funny though

It's actually from Dracula.

Professor Van Helsing had some interesting insights.

And I freely admit that what I propose would be objectively indistinguishable from quackery.

It is the final refuge for one seeking to maintain belief.

Or perhaps it is a doorway to greater understanding.

I don't claim to know for sure which.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_BrianH]

The veracity of the Bible is directly on point. If the Bible is not true, then Mormonism cannot possibly be true. The uncomfortable fact that your cherished beliefs also go down with the ship is just too bad.

You put your beliefs at issue by coming here and posting. The truth value of other religious traditions is necessarily at issue with regard to Mormonism, since the LDS Church claims to be the one, true church. Also, the scope of this board is not defined by its name alone:

http://mormondiscussions.com/

Mormon Discussions. . . Because we all want the truth.

Here is a place of free discussion. Whether you want to discuss the finer intricacies of doctrine, or whether you want to discuss the truthiness of the church in general, your word will be heard here.

Pro, anti, investigator, questioner, critic, apologetic, no matter what you call yourself, what you have to say, or what your agenda is, you have a place here. We pride ourselves on a minimalistic moderation policy, so that your voice is always heard.

You are obviously confused. I did not say that complaining about the Bible was against the rules, Darth; I said it has nothing to do with my request that Mormons show us some reasons to think that the Egyptian document universally recognized as the "Book of Breathings" somehow really does translate into what Mormons call the "Book of Abraham". And as a case in point that Smith identified the canopic deities in Fac #1 in your "Book of Abraham", CORRECTLY.

The simple logical fact is, even if the Bible did not exist, my question would still be entirely valid. Thus the Bible's veracity is as irrelevant as the veracity of the Pophul Vuh, the Kojiki or even Harry Potter.

-BH

.

[_BrianH]

So why is it when you challenge the belief system of the Mormons and they don't respond they are 'cowards', but you're free to run from every challenge to your own belief system? By your own standards you're a coward.

You are confused. I am not running away from anything. I am trying to get Mormons to run or at least try to crawl TOWARDS meeting my challange to simply provide us with some evidence that will confirm that their "prophet" supposedly translated what is universally recognized among qualified Egyptologists and other experts as a copy of the "Book of Breathings" into what Mormons call the "Book of Abraham" and in particular, as a case in point that they show us some reason to think that their "prophet" properly identified the canopic idol deities in Fac #1 CORRECTLY.

Refusing to allow the usual LDS tactic of generating rabbit trails that lead away from topics that they themselves know will prove the fakery of their "prophet", is not the same thing as running away from a topic -especially when that topic is IRRELEVANT. It is, instead, simply a determined effort to hold on to the topic that I introduced here.

My personal beliefs on other matters are as totally and completely IRRELEVANT to the topic of this topic as any tangent regarding YOUR beliefs regarding the Pophul Vuh or the 2011 World Series.

-BH

.

[_consiglieri]

I am not running away from anything.

Does this mean you have finally responded to the thread asking you questions in the Terrestrial Forum?

*hunts in terrestrial forum*

Nope. Guess not.


All the Best!

--Consiglieri