Stk Pres Romney's Encounter With Feminist Mormon

[_LDSToronto]

There are two moments in adulthood when you typically take out your endowments...when you go on a mission and/or when you get married. If you don't do either, then typically, you couldn't go. However, several years ago, they made the exception that if a single woman past typical mission age and/or a woman married to a non-member could also take out her own endowments as long as she went through the worthiness interview.

Right. So effectively, it was only women married to non-members who were barred from temples. I assume that if a man had served a mission while single, then come home and married a non-member, he'd still be able to attend. (Which is what my husband did.)

I knew that single women who hadn't gone on missions used to be unable to do the endowment, but I hadn't known that women married to non-members were excluded as well.

Not quite, Ms. Jack. I would respectfully disagree with Liz on some points and hopes she doesn't mind this correction; I recall when the policy change happened and recall the letter (I don't have a copy, unfortunately).

Married women have always been allowed to take out their endowment whether married to a member or non-member. There has never been a policy for as long as I've been in the church (20 years) barring married women.

The policy change was actually a more strict bar of entry for single women. The policy says:
1. Single sisters can be granted temple recommends if they are serving a mission
2. Single sisters can be granted temple recommends if they show a mature disposition and there is no reasonable prospect for marriage in the near future
3. Single sisters may not have a temple recommend so that they can attend the temple sealing of friends/relatives

This is for a first time recommend - once you have one you can always get one, provided you are worthy.

The reason given for #3 is because 18-22 year old women were getting endowed so that they could get into the weddings of friends and families.

I can't imagine why the age of a woman is important to entry into the temple. But, before we go to far in claiming sexism (and I'm no fan of the church), the same rules apply to men - if a young man doesn't serve a mission or get married, they can't get a recommend either.

H.

[_Yoda]

Thanks for sharing, LDST!

I am glad to know I was wrong in that particular case.

;-)

[_moksha]

"But I can tell you one thing: you’re not my kind of Mormon. ”

Shades of Mormon Dialogue and Discussion, where have we heard this sentiment before?

[_MsJack]

If someone falsely like anti-mormons and feminists think the Church "treats women badly", which is what they she was claiming to Romney and clearly degrading the Church, then they likely shouldn't be a member of the Church.

I don't hold very many opinions on what types of people should or should not be a member of your church. Policing LDS church membership is neither my right nor one of my interests.

But it is a fact that the church discriminates against women and subordinates them to men. It doesn't take a feminist or an anti-Mormon to see that.

In any case, I suspect that Judith Dushku has done a lot more good in this world than you or me or any number of people has. I recall last year hearing about her efforts to build a healing center for former child soldiers in Uganda. I think any church would be blessed to have her, LDS or otherwise.

Married women have always been allowed to take out their endowment whether married to a member or non-member. There has never been a policy for as long as I've been in the church (20 years) barring married women.

So why does Judith Dushku say in the article that she was barred from taking out her endowment on account of being married to a non-member?

I appreciate the input from both you and liz. I'm not all that interested in adding this to my list of "sexist things the church does/has done." I'm just curious about it, particularly since it involves non-LDS spouses.

[_Willy Law]

So why does Judith Dushku say in the article that she was barred from taking out her endowment on account of being married to a non-member?

She was right. All these quotes are from Devery Anderson's book The Development of LDS Temple Worship which you should all buy.

Said those who marry outside of the church could attend to adoptions if they were recommended but should not be given their endowments, because when they get their endowments they enter into the covenants to have no sexual intercourse with the sons of Adam, except their lawful husbands, to whom they are given in the authority of the Holy Priesthood.
Presiden John D. McAllister Temple President, Temple Minute Book, St. George Apri. 20 1886.

The rule of the temple is that a woman who marries outside of the Church cannot receive a recommend to go through the temple, because her husband would be very apt to ask her to reveal the temple ordinances and if she refused to do so it would cause contention between them.
Anthon H.Lund and Charles Penrose to Edward H Snow, Mar 11, 1916

A living woman cannot receive endowments while her husband is alive, if the husband has not been endowed.
Joseph F Smith 1918, in MFP 5:110-113

It should be understood that wives of non-member husbands should not be recommended to the temple to receive their endowments....It is not necessary that worthy brethern receive the consent of their wives, whether the wives be non-members or unworthy of temple recommends.
David OMcKay, Stephen L Richards and J. Reuben Clark Jr.
June 20, 1955

Temple Recommends will not be granted to the following persons:
4. Wives who have not yet received their own endowments whose husbands are nor members of the Church
Helps and Suggestions for Ward Bishops 17-23

Under no circumstances will a recommend be issued for endowments to a wife whose husband is not a member of the Church. This rule does not prevent such a worthy wife, whose husband is willing, from participating in baptisms for the dead in the temples.
General Handbook of Instructions, Number 18 65-70, 74-75

A wife whose husband is not endowed should not be given a recommend to receiver her endowment.
A worthy man whose wife has not received her endowments may be given a recommend to receive his own endowments.
General Handbook of Instruction, Number 21, 1976, 53-66

A wife whose husband is not endowed may not receive a recommend for her own endowment.
General Handbook of Instructions 1983, 34-44

Seems to have changed in 1986

A person who is married to an unendowed spouse may receive a recommend when he or she has provided the bishop with written consent of the spouse and both the bishop and the stake president.
Ezra Taft Benson, Gordon B. Hinckley and Thomas S. Monsaon, circular letter, Feb 12, 1986

[_LDSToronto]

So why does Judith Dushku say in the article that she was barred from taking out her endowment on account of being married to a non-member?

She was right. All these quotes are from Devery Anderson's book The Development of LDS Temple Worship which you should all buy.

Said those who marry outside of the church could attend to adoptions if they were recommended but should not be given their endowments, because when they get their endowments they enter into the covenants to have no sexual intercourse with the sons of Adam, except their lawful husbands, to whom they are given in the authority of the Holy Priesthood.
Presiden John D. McAllister Temple President, Temple Minute Book, St. George Apri. 20 1886.

The rule of the temple is that a woman who marries outside of the Church cannot receive a recommend to go through the temple, because her husband would be very apt to ask her to reveal the temple ordinances and if she refused to do so it would cause contention between them.
Anthon H.Lund and Charles Penrose to Edward H Snow, Mar 11, 1916

A living woman cannot receive endowments while her husband is alive, if the husband has not been endowed.
Joseph F Smith 1918, in MFP 5:110-113

It should be understood that wives of non-member husbands should not be recommended to the temple to receive their endowments....It is not necessary that worthy brethern receive the consent of their wives, whether the wives be non-members or unworthy of temple recommends.
David OMcKay, Stephen L Richards and J. Reuben Clark Jr.
June 20, 1955

Temple Recommends will not be granted to the following persons:
4. Wives who have not yet received their own endowments whose husbands are nor members of the Church
Helps and Suggestions for Ward Bishops 17-23

Under no circumstances will a recommend be issued for endowments to a wife whose husband is not a member of the Church. This rule does not prevent such a worthy wife, whose husband is willing, from participating in baptisms for the dead in the temples.
General Handbook of Instructions, Number 18 65-70, 74-75

A wife whose husband is not endowed should not be given a recommend to receiver her endowment.
A worthy man whose wife has not received her endowments may be given a recommend to receive his own endowments.
General Handbook of Instruction, Number 21, 1976, 53-66

A wife whose husband is not endowed may not receive a recommend for her own endowment.
General Handbook of Instructions 1983, 34-44

Seems to have changed in 1986

A person who is married to an unendowed spouse may receive a recommend when he or she has provided the bishop with written consent of the spouse and both the bishop and the stake president.
Ezra Taft Benson, Gordon B. Hinckley and Thomas S. Monsaon, circular letter, Feb 12, 1986

Wow! Thanks Willy - the book is worth purchasing?

H.

[_LDSToronto]

So why does Judith Dushku say in the article that she was barred from taking out her endowment on account of being married to a non-member?

I appreciate the input from both you and liz. I'm not all that interested in adding this to my list of "sexist things the church does/has done." I'm just curious about it, particularly since it involves non-LDS spouses.

I stand corrected as per Willy Law's post.

H.

[_Willy Law]

Wow! Thanks Willy - the book is worth purchasing?

H.

Most definitely. About 500 pages of source material regarding the development of the temple.
I just ordered his other two books on the Quorum of the Annoited and the Endowment Company.

http://www.amazon.com/Development-LDS-Temple-Worship-1846-2000/dp/1560852119/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325956728&sr=8-1

[_Willy Law]

Said those who marry outside of the church could attend to adoptions if they were recommended but should not be given their endowments, because when they get their endowments they enter into the covenants to have no sexual intercourse with the sons of Adam, except their lawful husbands, to whom they are given in the authority of the Holy Priesthood.
Presiden John D. McAllister Temple President, Temple Minute Book, St. George Apri. 20 1886.

For the life of me I cannot figure out how this reasoning makes any sense and, more importantly, how the same reasoning would not hold true for men.

[_ldsfaqs]

But it is a fact that the church discriminates against women and subordinates them to men. It doesn't take a feminist or an anti-Mormon to see that.

Actually it DOES take an anti-mormon or feminist to see that, because that's the ONLY time I ever saw the same myself, is when I left the Church and became anti-mormon, because of blacks, women, and polygamy.

I was seriously wrong, and so are you. Normal average people who have no "agenda" either way see normal healthy relationships with women and men in the Church.