Radex wrote:Blixa and DrW, I appreciate the support. You're both fine people. I am not British. I did say something about "across the pond", so let me explain: I am an American citizen, born in the UK. I have lived here, in Utah, for about 16 years now, and I have been trying to purge British slang and spelling from my speech and writing. In that respect, I do take it as a small compliment when someone comments that I don't use such slang or spelling.
Radex,
I was born in the US and lived in the UK for several years. When I returned to the US, I did my best to hold on the slight British accent that I picked up while working in London (enough to have some folks back in the US ask me where I was from). But alas, the slight accent is now completely gone.
Funny how one can value a given characteristic or asset in a way that is exactly opposite to the way it is valued by someone else. Assets in the eyes of some become liabilities in the eyes of others.
For example, I value very highly evidence-supported and internally consistent beliefs, while many here seem to shy away from the evidence and put more value on unfounded and internally inconsistent beliefs.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Anyhow, a General Authority has confirmed the Whitmer account when he included it in his talk to Mission Presidents and later when it was published in the Ensign in 1993. Here is the account quoted in Russell Nelsons remarks.
“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)
why me wrote:I don't think that anyone is denying the hat trick. However, what people are saying is that this was not the only way the Book of Mormon was translated. And that is probably true.
Based on the eye-witness account of whom? CFR!!!
Quit the BS. Give us a reference to an eye-witness account of any method other than the JSJr's face planted in the hat?
Radex wrote:Blixa and DrW, I appreciate the support. You're both fine people. I am not British. I did say something about "across the pond", so let me explain: I am an American citizen, born in the UK. I have lived here, in Utah, for about 16 years now, and I have been trying to purge British slang and spelling from my speech and writing. In that respect, I do take it as a small compliment when someone comments that I don't use such slang or spelling.
Radex,
I was born in Southern Idaho and lived in the UK for several years. When I returned to the US, I did my best to hold on the slight British accent that I picked up while working in London (enough to have some folks back in the US ask me where I was from). But alas, the slight accent is now completely gone.
Funny how one can value a given characteristic or asset in a way that is exactly opposite to the way it is valued by someone else. Assets in the eyes of some become liabilities in the eyes of others.
For example, I value very highly evidence-supported and internally consistent beliefs, while many here seem to shy away from the evidence and put more value on unfounded and internally inconsistent beliefs.
So true. I was born in England and moved to Utah at an early age. My accent, meter and word usage were a problem for me in American schools. The other kids were always saying "Huh?".
I soon learned to drop the "English" accent. My sister had much more trouble with that. She was several years older than I was and had an accent until her dying day.
Funny, to Americans she sounded English. When she went back to England on visits, she sounded American to them. Lost in the middle.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Radex wrote:Blixa and DrW, I appreciate the support. You're both fine people. I am not British. I did say something about "across the pond", so let me explain: I am an American citizen, born in the UK. I have lived here, in Utah, for about 16 years now, and I have been trying to purge British slang and spelling from my speech and writing. In that respect, I do take it as a small compliment when someone comments that I don't use such slang or spelling.
Radex,
I was born in Southern Idaho and lived in the UK for several years. When I returned to the US, I did my best to hold on the slight British accent that I picked up while working in London (enough to have some folks back in the US ask me where I was from). But alas, the slight accent is now completely gone.
Funny how one can value a given characteristic or asset in a way that is exactly opposite to the way it is valued by someone else. Assets in the eyes of some become liabilities in the eyes of others.
For example, I value very highly evidence-supported and internally consistent beliefs, while many here seem to shy away from the evidence and put more value on unfounded and internally inconsistent beliefs.
Quasimodo wrote:So true. I was born in England and moved to Utah at an early age. My accent, meter and word usage were a problem for me in American schools. The other kids were always saying "Huh?".
I soon learned to drop the "English" accent. My sister had much more trouble with that. She was several years older than I was and had an accent until her dying day.
Funny, to Americans she sounded English. When she went back to England on visits, she sounded American to them. Lost in the middle.
sock puppet wrote:A woman without a country--so to speak.
Yeah, that's how it seemed to me. She might have said " A women with a foot in both countries".
It actually work in her favor. She was in high school when we came here. She was a very pretty girl anyway. The accent made her seem more exotic to her male classmates. It didn't work that way for me.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
sock puppet wrote:A woman without a country--so to speak.
Yeah, that's how it seemed to me. She might have said " A women with a foot in both countries".
It actually work in her favor. She was in high school when we came here. She was a very pretty girl anyway. The accent made her seem more exotic to her male classmates. It didn't work that way for me.
Quasi, have you ever listened to the lyrics of the song "Some Girls" by the Rolling Stones? Jagger and Richards seem to have tapped into my soul some how with that one. Your description of your sister brought that to my mind for some reason.
sock puppet wrote:Quasi, have you ever listened to the lyrics of the song "Some Girls" by the Rolling Stones? Jagger and Richards seem to have tapped into my soul some how with that one. Your description of your sister brought that to my mind for some reason.
:D. Do you mean this?:
English girls they're so prissy, I can't stand them on the telephone Sometimes I take the receiver off the hook, I don't want them to ever call at all
I guess Jagger must of had his fill of English girls. It worked the other way in Utah.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
sock puppet wrote:Quasi, have you ever listened to the lyrics of the song "Some Girls" by the Rolling Stones? Jagger and Richards seem to have tapped into my soul some how with that one. Your description of your sister brought that to my mind for some reason.
:D. Do you mean this?:
English girls they're so prissy, I can't stand them on the telephone Sometimes I take the receiver off the hook, I don't want them to ever call at all
I guess Jagger must of had his fill of English girls. It worked the other way in Utah.
Jagger did not say he didn't like them in person, if you know what I mean. :-) And we know Richards likes all girls!
why me wrote: I don't think that anyone is denying the hat trick.
Except the Mormon church in every one of the depictions it uses in conference, on web sites, in church manuals, and the Gospel Art Kit.
why me wrote:No one is denying the hat trick.
Except the Mormon church in every one of the depictions it uses in conference, on web sites, in church manuals, and the Gospel Art Kit.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain "The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
Yahoo Bot wrote:On the other hand, critics who don't read books much think that if one likes a particular concession a "drifting" witness makes one must accept all that that witness says. Like if the Didache writes about the doctrine of theosis and unwavering obedience to the bishops and elders as conditions to proper Christian worship, one must also accept its thinking that water might not be necessary for baptism if one is in the middle of a desert.
Sorry, my friend, cherry-picking is particularly favored by historians of critical sources. Livy did it. Gibbon, Bancroft, Prescott and more.
In discussing Christian history with Evangelicals, or the doctrine of grace, I particularly find useful and productive quoting FF Bruce or Bruce Metzger.
I don't know. As I mentioned, several eyewitnesses mentioned the stone in the hat, so it's not really cherry picking to say that's how Joseph Smith did it.