Why did FP/12 not dismiss the Salamander Letter as a fraud?

[_sock puppet]

In 1980, in exchange for the "Anthon Transcript" COJCOLDS gave up a $5 Mormon gold coin, Deseret banknotes and a 1st Edition Book of Mormon to Mark Hofmann. Mormon apologist Hugh Nibley pronounced it to be "as good a test as we'll ever get of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon", hoping the Anthon Transcript could be translated. Robert Lindsey, A Gathering of Saints: A True Story of Money Murder and Deceit (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1988), 66-69.

Thus began the lucrative, if not short-lived, career of historical document forgery by Mark Hofmann.

Hofmann began claiming to have, and COJCOLDS kept buying, other early Mormon history documents.

Other LDS notables include the "Thomas Bullock letter" supposedly dated 1/27/1865 and calling Brother Brigham out for having destroyed all copies of a written-down blessing by JSJr designating his son JSIII as his successor. Hofmann claimed to have a copy of the Blessing too. This was purchased by COJCOLDS (1981) after initially having balked at the price Hofmann was asking, but then agreeing after word that Hofmann might hawk the document to the RLDS.

Hofmann presented letters "from" Lucy Mack Smith describing the origin of the Book of Mormon and from Martin Harris and from David Whitmer giving their claims of visions, respectively, a contract between JSJr and Egbert Grandin for printing the 1st Ed. Book of Mormon, and two pages of Oliver Cowdery's manuscript of Book of Mormon dictation from JSJr. In 1983, GBH directly bought a purported JSJr holograph confirming treasure hunting and engaging in folk/black magic as late as 1825 for $15,000.

Then came the Salamander letter in 1984, "from" Martin Harris to W W Phelps, hinting at JSJr's magical money-digging days and explaining the JSJr got the gold plates from a white salamander rather than a humanoid angel, such as Moroni or Nephi (depending on which tale of JSJr's you might relate to best).

Dallin H Oaks decimated the academic and scholarly reputation he'd spent a lifetime building by trying to apologize away the white salamander possibility, explaining that "salamander" might also refer to a mythical being thought to be able to live in fire, and a "being that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description Joseph Smith gave of the Angel Moroni." "1985 CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium" (August 16, 1985), 22-23.

But it was those apostates that elohim/jehovah don't inspire, Jerald and Sandra Tanner, that first proclaimed the Salamander letter to be a forgery--before those beacons of receivers of elohim/jehovah's messages, the FP/12, knew it. Jerald Tanner’s Tracking the White Salamander: The Story of Mark Hofmann, Murder and Forged Mormon Documents.

The Salt Lake Tribune reported on 10/23/1985 that it was apparent from the comments of Alvin Rust (who had paid Hofmann $150,000) "and the police investigation that, at some point, negotiations were under way between Mr. Hofmann and the church—either through a general authority or an intermediary buyer—that the LDS Church was attempting to buy the collection, a number of affidavits, letters and ancient Egyptian papyrus that may contain potential embarrassing materials for the church."

That same day, GBH retorted during a news conference that Hofmann had approached GBH about donating the McLellin collection, but "there was no discussion of our [COJCOLDS'] purchasing it." Salt Lake Tribune, 10/27/1985.

Oaks told Frank Moss/KBYU News that "I thought it was clear from my statement that the church was very intent on not getting the [McLellin] papers, so that there would be no misunderstanding about this. Could you rephrase that question?" (Salt Lake Tribune, Oct. 27, 1985).

However, when the truth came out, Oaks had been involved in lining up, primarily through Hugh Pinnock, a lender to Hofmann to acquire the McLellin collection from its source in Texas, arranging for an anonymous purchaser from Hofmann who would then donate the collection to the Church, etc.

Though this issue has been raised numerous times on the Bloggernacle, I am yet to hear an apologetic that even passes the blush test for an apologist to iterate it.

So, just a very simple, concise question: why did those without elohim/jehovah's inspiration, without the powers of divine discernment figure out before elohim/jehovah's brain trust of the FP/12 that the Salamander letter was a forgery? It could have saved Oaks the embarrassment of his apologetic trying to equate salamanders with elohim/jehovah's angels? It could have saved Oaks the embarrassment from claiming the Church was "very intent on not getting" the McLellin collection, when in fact he'd been involved, through Hugh Pinnock, in orchestrating the pieces of the puzzle for the Church to acquire just that.

[_aranyborju]

To me, the worst part of that ordeal wasn't that the church leaders were unable to detect a fraud like they should have been able to...it was the way that the were willing to shell out so much money to buy damaging documents so that they could remain covered up.

[_Daheshist]

According to Elder Oaks, when he was asked why the Brethren could not "discern" Hofmann was a forger, liar, murderer, Oaks replied that the Brethren did indeed have the Spirit of Discernment, but they had to "turn it off during normal business hours" otherwise they would be "paranoid of everybody".

Apparently, the Spirit of Discernment makes them paranoid...sort of like too much pot or meth!

As far as Elder Oaks telling the Media that the Church was "intent on NOT getting the McLellin Collection". He was lying. But...that's ok! His cause was just. Also, you should realize by NOW that the Brethren LIE FOR THE LORD, all the time! They believe they have God's authority to do so. YOU don't. I don't. But THEY do. They really believe this.

The Mark Hofmann Murders is going to become a film (straight to DVD) in about 18 months. Look for it in late 2013.

[_Jonah]

To me, the worst part of that ordeal wasn't that the church leaders were unable to detect a fraud like they should have been able to...it was the way that the were willing to shell out so much money to buy damaging documents so that they could remain covered up.

By doing so they fueled Hofmann and his livelihood. The church had no problem displaying the "positive" documents acquired while "storing" the less favorable ones. In a way, the church was just as greedy as Hofmann. The leaders' actions (or inactions) caused the deaths of innocent people.

I love that famous picture of Hofmann, Kimball, BKP, Hinckley, etc. looking at one of the forgeries. Instead of Kimball looking through a magnifying glass, he should be turning to Hofmann and saying, "Son, the Lord has inspired me to rebuke you as a liar and a fraud." Then he should have raised his arm to the square and commanded a lightning bolt to strike Hofmann down. Now THAT would have been a picture.

To answer the very simple, concise question -
elohim/jehovah - Do not exist
elohim/jehovah's inspiration - Does not exist
powers of divine discernment - Does not exist
brain trust of the FP/12 - Wow...you used "brain" and "FP/12" in the same sentence.

[_sock puppet]

To me, the worst part of that ordeal wasn't that the church leaders were unable to detect a fraud like they should have been able to...it was the way that the were willing to shell out so much money to buy damaging documents so that they could remain covered up.

True, because that shows they do not themselves trust the mythical version of early Mormon history that COJCOLDS has carefully cultivated and refined over the decades--almost as carefully as Mitt Romney combs his hair each morning to make sure each hair is in its intended place. The COB clowns know that myth is false, so they needed to buy and bury any documents that might blow the lid off the myth.

[_sock puppet]

To me, the worst part of that ordeal wasn't that the church leaders were unable to detect a fraud like they should have been able to...it was the way that the were willing to shell out so much money to buy damaging documents so that they could remain covered up.

By doing so they fueled Hofmann and his livelihood. The church had no problem displaying the "positive" documents acquired while "storing" the less favorable ones. In a way, the church was just as greedy as Hofmann. The leaders' actions (or inactions) caused the deaths of innocent people.

I love that famous picture of Hofmann, Kimball, BKP, Hinckley, etc. looking at one of the forgeries. Instead of Kimball looking through a magnifying glass, he should be turning to Hofmann and saying, "Son, the Lord has inspired me to rebuke you as a liar and a fraud." Then he should have raised his arm to the square and commanded a lightning bolt to strike Hofmann down. Now THAT would have been a picture.

To answer the very simple, concise question -
elohim/jehovah - Do not exist
elohim/jehovah's inspiration - Does not exist
powers of divine discernment - Does not exist
brain trust of the FP/12 - Wow...you used "brain" and "FP/12" in the same sentence.

Hofmann used paper on which to construct his forgeries. The Brethren construct their forged myth of the early Mormon history in many ways--hiding documents with contrary facts, issued correlated materials that shill a lie (such as pictorials and descriptions of the Studious Joe method rather than the only method for which there is competent historical accounts, the face-in-hat method), holding up at GC a book and describing it as the one that JSJr had at Carthage Jail, shooting video of Ronald Poelman at the podium in an empty Tabernacle reading a revised version of his GC talk (to be included in the official video release of that GC), excusing lies by Paul Dunn as good stories even if not true and giving him GA emeritus status in the early 90s when they excommunicated 6 intellectuals for related information that has a basis in fact, the 'special witnesses' hiding their light under a bushel by claiming it's too sacred to talk about (the only value a witness has is telling!), advising members to 'let it alone'--Awe, what a marvelous work and a wonder this "truth" is.

[_Drifting]

We have to take at face value that the First Presidency and Apostles would consult with God about how to spend 'the widows mite' and what pronouncements to make to the membership. (If they aren't even doing that then they should be sacked for gross misconduct).

So, this is an example where they prayed about it and were obviously told by God, via the burning in the bosom that they must have experienced, that the documents were true. Yet they turned out to be fake.

This leaves believing Mormons in a difficult position; Either their leaders aren't inspired, or they cannot identify what the Holy Ghost is telling them, or God is messing them about. This leaves one wondering about what else they might have gotten wrong...

[_Buffalo]

This really is quite damning to the credibility of the 15 as being legitimate oracles of God. They curse the Tanners from dawn to dusk, but the Tanners figured it out while they were groping in the dark, wasting scared tithing money on trying to cover up what they thought were legitimate but damning historical documents.

[_sr1030]

I used to have a copy of the transcripts of the Mark Hoffman trial. Actually I may still have it around somewhere. In it, Hoffman states that he was successful in getting the LDS Church to purchase his forgeries by writing them very similar to documents that already were in the LDS Church archives that he had access too. Basically he was stating there was a genuine document in the archives very similar to the forged Salamander letter.

sr

[_Runtu]

I used to have a copy of the transcripts of the Mark Hoffman trial. Actually I may still have it around somewhere. In it, Hoffman states that he was successful in getting the LDS Church to purchase his forgeries by writing them very similar to documents that already were in the LDS Church archives that he had access too. Basically he was stating there was a genuine document in the archives very similar to the forged Salamander letter.

sr

That would not surprise me at all.