Where will Hill Cumorah be after the Old Guard has passed?

[_bcspace]

You are obviously more in tune with the spirit than your prophets and apostles.

Which ones?

[Guest]

Anti-mormon assumptions are not the same as the actual facts concerning the Church.

There have ALWAYS been "two" Cumorahs......

You all forget that Moroni TRAVELED many miles and years before he ultimately deposited the plates, clearly in a Cumorah not the same as the traditional one. Even the OLD "Voice from the Dust" or whatever video compilation shows this from some 30 years ago.

In fact, you idiots don't even realize that the Book of Mormon doesn't even state WERE Moroni deposited the plates. The NY Cumorah was called that LATER!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumorah

The Wikipedia entry on Cumorah was an exceptionally poor choice to support your assertions.

The article relies on an article by Bill Hamblin discussing the first Watson letter, and the FAIR wiki, as the source for the claim that the LDS Church has no official position where the hill Cumorah was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumorah#cite_note-watson-9

Notice there is no official statement from the Church saying there is no official position.

The article also quotes Joseph Fielding Smith, Mark E. Petersen, and Bruce R. McConkie stating that the Hill Cumorah was in upstate New York. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumorah#cite_note-10

Since it is so obvious from the Book of Mormon, per you and more explicitly bcspace, that there were two Cumorahs, I wonder how it is that so many apostles don't understand the plain language of the Book of Mormon.

Some people find comfort in convincing themselves that in 181 (nearly 182) years of living prophets and apostles, the Church cannot name a single location from the Book of Mormon (I don't concede the point, but am merely commenting on the security blanket of "we don't know"). Reasonable people tend to take that more as an indication that the Book of Mormon narrative never happened anywhere.

[_Willy Law]

You are obviously more in tune with the spirit than your prophets and apostles.

Which ones?

For starters


Joseph Fielding Smith
Marion G Romney
BH Roberts
Orson Pratt
James Talmage
Bruce R McConkie
Mark E Peterson
Gordon B Hinckley

[_Shulem]

Joseph Fielding Smith -- MAN'S OPINION
Marion G Romney -- MAN'S OPINION
BH Roberts -- MAN'S OPINION
Orson Pratt -- MAN'S OPINION
James Talmage -- MAN'S OPINION
Bruce R McConkie -- MAN'S OPINION
Mark E Peterson -- MAN'S OPINION
Gordon B Hinckley -- MAN'S OPINION

The Church of Jesus Christ of Man's-opinion

Paul O

[_Darth J]

Is this the official LGT apologetic theory as well?

Liz, there is no "official LGT apologetic theory." There are several ideas within Mesoamerica. That's without even talking about the "Heartland" model, the upstate New York model, the hemispheric model (yes, some still believe that), etc.

Readers may draw their own conclusions as to what it says about the Book of Mormon that believers looking for real-world parallels cannot even agree on where in Mesoamerica (among the crowd who favor that general geography) they think the Book of Mormon narrative happened.

[_moksha]

Where was Middle Earth located after the passing of J.R.R. Tolkien? Same place it always was: In the hearts and minds of readers everywhere.

[_ludwigm]

Can you provide other examples from the Book of Mormon where the Nephites gave the same name to more than one place? or is this an anomaly among reported Nephite practices?

... Facsimile No. 3 ...

Hey, Paul, glad to see your posts. Hope all is well in this new year, 2012. It seems, If I recall correctly, JSJr was able to conjure a new name for each new geographical place he'd mention in his Book of Mormon narrative. So it would seem contrary to that practice for JSJr to claim that Moroni called a second hill, the one in New York, by the same name of another, already so named hill somewhere else.

#cough#
Giving the same name to more than one place is a stupid habit.

Moscow (city, Russia)
Moscow (city, Idaho)
Moscow (city, PA)
Moscow (city, OH)
Moscow (city, KS)
Moscow (city, TN)
Moscow (city, MI)
Moscow (city, AR)
Moscow (city, IA)
Moscow (city, Texas)
Moscow (city, VT)

Warsaw (capital, Poland)
Warsaw (city, IN)
Warsaw (city, IL)
Warsaw (city, OH)
Warsaw (city, KY)
Warsaw (city, MO)
Warsaw (city, NC)
Warsaw (city, VA)
Warsaw (city, NY)
Warsaw (city, MN)

Fortunately, there is only one place called Budapest.

Budapest Did You Mean?
Budapest (capital, Hungary)
Budapest (Rock Band)
Zsuzsanna Budapest
Budapest String Quartet (Classical Group)
Budapest Symphony Orchestra (Classical Group)
Budapest Festival Orchestra (Classical Group)
Budapest Philharmonic Orchestra (Classical Group)
Budapest Strings (Classical Group)
Budapest Chamber Orchestra (Classical Group)
Crest of a Knave (1987 Album by Jethro Tull)
What rhymes with 'Budapest'? (rhymes)
Budapest (1992 Album by Deborah Henson-Conant)
Budapest (2001 Album by Steamboat Switzerland)
In Budapest (1962 Album by Chris Barber)
In Budapest (1999 Album by Ella Fitzgerald)

[Guest]

Is this the official LGT apologetic theory as well?

Liz, there is no "official LGT apologetic theory." There are several ideas within Mesoamerica. That's without even talking about the "Heartland" model, the upstate New York model, the hemispheric model (yes, some still believe that), etc.

Readers may draw their own conclusions as to what it says about the Book of Mormon that believers looking for real-world parallels cannot even agree on where in Mesoamerica (among the crowd who favor that general geography) they think the Book of Mormon narrative happened.

I think it's even more telling that people who claim direct and personal communication with God on behalf of His Church cannot agree where the Book of Mormon record refers to.
Either God is playing a divine Pantomime 'It's over there...' 'No...I mean it's over there'.
Or His Prophets and Apostles are just blindly playing 'pin the tail on the tapir'...and losing...

It's also worth noting that any Mormon leader who states an opinion that the Hill Cumorah isn't in New York state, is uncovering himself as an anti Mormon - as that opinion is contrary to the official position of the Church (see my post below).

[_ludwigm]

Where was Middle Earth located after the passing of J.R.R. Tolkien? Same place it always was: In the hearts and minds of readers everywhere.

Yes.

While I am reading a book, I am living in that environment. I see the kings and the slaves, I hear the clashing of the swords, I smell the sweat of the warriors.
Then I close the book and watch the TV.

The kings, slaves and warriors disappear.
I see dirt, lies, money - politics...

[_Drifting]

Hey all.... Cherry picking SOME LDS through history that believed Book of Mormon events took place in NY, really don't help you, because there are just as many LDS who believe Book of Mormon events took place in Meso-America.

Most damaging to you is even Joseph Smith believed Book of Mormon events primarily took place in Meso-America.

You guys really need to learn to stop bearing false witness.
The Church has no "official" position on the matter, and they've said it over and over again. Yes, you can cherry pick some idiot such as "Watson" who presumed too much, but his opinion still has nothing to do with the Church.

Further, the NY Cumorah IS Cumorah, the one in which the plates were buried.
You "add" to many leaders views that that is where they believed the final battle occurred.
Not that some didn't have that view, they did, but personal opinions are not the Church.

ldsfaqs,

It is becoming increasingly clear that you are not well educated about what the Church offically teaches or states. Perhaps, before posting, you could research your random opinions against what LDS.org states...

Cumorah, Hill

See also Book of Mormon; Moroni, Son of Mormon; Smith, Joseph, Jr..

A small hill located in western New York, United States of America. Here an ancient prophet named Moroni hid the gold plates containing some of the records of the Nephite and Jaredite nations. Joseph Smith was directed to this hill in 1827 by the resurrected Moroni to get these plates and translate a portion of them. This translation is the Book of Mormon.

Nephites gathered at Cumorah, Morm. 6:2–4
Cumorah was in a land of many waters, Morm. 6:4
Mormon hid the records in the Hill Cumorah, Morm. 6:6
All but twenty and four Nephites were slain at Cumorah, Morm. 6:11
We hear glad tidings from Cumorah, D&C 128:20
Joseph Smith took plates from the Hill Cumorah, Joseph Smith—H 1:42, 50–54, 59
(LDS.org - Topic 'The Hill Cumorah')

Note: It references only one hill as opposed to your suggestion of two small hills, one in New York State and one somewhere else.
Note: It references Joseph finding the plates and the Book of Mormon events as happening at the same location.
Note: LDS who voice the opinion that the New York hill is not the Hill Cumorah from the Book of Mormon are propogating an anti Mormonism.

I repeat my suggestion from another thread that you should consider investing a few years in studying Seminary or Institute. But at the very least you should definitely use LDS.org before posting your incorrect assertions.