Your online Mormonism experience

[_aranyborju]

Sure,

1. The veracity of the Book of Abraham, and the entire discussion regarding the method of translation.

2. Differing accounts of the first vision, what they contained, and how, when, and by whom they were written.

3. The fluid nature of the early Book of Commandments and Doctrine and Covenants. Sections being removed that were no longer doctrinaly sound etc.

4. The dichotomy between the Gospel according to the Book of Mormon, and the Gospel according to the D&C, and PGP.

5. Actual teachings of Brigham Young regarding Adam-God, and Blood Atonement, as opposed to the standard LDS handling of those topics.

6. The extent to which a history of Joseph Smith has been documented, which differs from the official history that we are taught.

7. The many theories regarding the geography of the Book of Mormon, DNA, location, etc.

There are many more, but these are a few of the big ones (to me.) For most of these topics, I understood that there was some controversy, but I never new how deep the rabbit hole went, and I certainly didn't realize how credible and documented many of the so-called "anti-" arguments are.

The eye opener for me was that I was taught that when the Prophet speaks, the thinking has been done, however, in reality, there are many members with good standing in the church who clearly believe that when the Prophet speaks, the thinking has been done, unless what the prophet said doesn't make sense, in which case we have a host of apologists who can also pepper out one theory after the other, and no one really cares which theory you believe, as long as the end result is that you still think the church is true.

[_Blixa]

This query is probably a bit off topic for this thread, but I'd be interested to hear about your choice of an avatar, aranyborju (I've already puzzled out your screen name!).

[_MrStakhanovite]

This query is probably a bit off topic for this thread, but I'd be interested to hear about your choice of an avatar, aranyborju (I've already puzzled out your screen name!).

I can't place it, but he looks familiar. At first I wanted to say it was a young Nietzsche, but couldn't find that specific picture. I'm sure it's a german though...

[_MrStakhanovite]

On topic, my online interaction has brought my opinion down for all groups I’ve encountered.

[_Morley]

This query is probably a bit off topic for this thread, but I'd be interested to hear about your choice of an avatar, aranyborju (I've already puzzled out your screen name!).

I can't place it, but he looks familiar. At first I wanted to say it was a young Nietzsche, but couldn't find that specific picture. I'm sure it's a german though...

I'm guessing Hungarian:

http://www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Szabo_Ervin

[_aranyborju]

This query is probably a bit off topic for this thread, but I'd be interested to hear about your choice of an avatar, aranyborju (I've already puzzled out your screen name!).

You figured out aranyborju? I'm impressed. It is the Hungarian translation for the Golden Calf worshiped by the ancient Israelites in the book of Exodus. I chose the name because of an inside joke that I had with someone on my Mission.

As far as my avatar...I am embarrassed to admit this, but I was having a hard time finding one that I liked that fit the 120x120 limit, so I just googled 120x120 avatars Hungarian (so that it would match my name), and I saw this one and for what ever reason I liked it. Thoughtful, but relaxed. I have no idea who it is a picture of. Is that horrible of me?

[_Blixa]

This query is probably a bit off topic for this thread, but I'd be interested to hear about your choice of an avatar, aranyborju (I've already puzzled out your screen name!).

You figured out aranyborju? I'm impressed. It is the Hungarian translation for the Golden Calf worshiped by the ancient Israelites in the book of Exodus. I chose the name because of an inside joke that I had with someone on my Mission.

As far as my avatar...I am embarrassed to admit this, but I was having a hard time finding one that I liked that fit the 120x120 limit, so I just googled 120x120 avatars Hungarian (so that it would match my name), and I saw this one and for what ever reason I liked it. Thoughtful, but relaxed. I have no idea who it is a picture of. Is that horrible of me?

No its not horrible! You picked a good guy: Ervin Szabó. I didn't recognize him at first, so I did a Google image search. From there it was clear your screen name was Hungarian and Google helped me translate it.

I can't claim a great knowledge about Ervin Szabó. I'm familiar with him as a Marxist (If I recall correctly he published some of the first Hungarian translations of Marx and Engels) and as a librarian. I run with a pack of library workers with whom I trade "library porn," and images of the Ervin Szabó Library in Budapest are considered quite luscious.

[_aranyborju]

Hey, thanks for finding that out for me! As a lover of libraries myself, I couldn't be more pleased with my choice at this point.


Sorry sock puppet. I doubt this is what you envisioned when you wrote the OP, but I must say, I've been enlightened.

[_Fence Sitter]

I had already left religion before I started investigating Mormonism online. While my favorable opinions on Mormons in general have not changed as a result of my online experience, my opinions of Mormonism have changed drastically.

I was raised with the sanitized version of Mormonism that the church still is trying to promote, served a mission in the 70's and attended BYU after. After my mission, while at BYU I went inactive, mostly I would say because Sunday meetings are just so incredibly boring though at the same time I came to the conclusion I really didn't have any good reason to believe one religion over another. Honestly I could not justify my religious experiences over those that people who believed differently. I began to realize that everyone thinks they are God 's chosen people.

A few years back I became curious about how many wives Joseph Smith actually had and started doing some online research. That led me to MAD (now MDD) any MDD led me here. Initially I lurked here and posted minimally over there. The results of my posting over there were eye opening. I learned that those defending the church online could be every bit as virulent as those that opposed it.

Here are a few things I have learned from my online experience. Most active and non active LDS members are woefully under informed regarding both the historical issues of the Church and the many factual issues of the LDS cannon. Apologist from both sides exhibit the same wide range of behavior. LDS Apologetics and doctrine are two meandering paths that cross on occasion. Dead prophets cannot defend their proclamations against live ones, duh! The older the LDS church is the less it knows and the more it resembles every other church.Joseph Smith was a brilliant idiot. Excommunication in the early church was a lot like a MLB lifetime baseball ban. The current church does not resemble the one Joseph Smith founded in many ways. The evolution of LDS doctrine from 1830 through 1844 is astounding. The efforts of the early church members to 'correct' its history to match the doctrinal evolution is well documented. We actually do know a whole lot about what went on back then. Early temple work was a lot more concerned with earthly dynasty building then sealing blood related families together. Joseph Smith could not read or translate Egyptian, reformed or otherwise. Isaiah had a multiple personality disorder. Emma Smith was an incredible woman whose primary focus was to defend and protect her family at all costs. Good honest intelligent people left the early church for good reasons. Seemingly unimportant online photo essays threaten the very existence of the LDS church.

The list could be pages long.

[_aranyborju]

...Apologist from both sides exhibit the same wide range of behavior...

I always thought it was funny how, in the church, they teach that it isn't possible to convert someone to and understanding of the gospel through arguments, and that the most important part of teaching the gospel is ensuring that the spirit is present. Many apologists seem to have forgotten this or simply disregard it, and choose logical arguments and a demeaning tone to try to convince others that the church is true. Not that I am complaining...I really think it kills a good intellectual discussion when someone throws down the "well I know it's true because the Holy Ghost told me so" card.