When I was a Young Mormon I was told the following.....

[_Daheshist]

1. The Book of Mormon is the history of the American Indians of North and South America.

2. Everything the Living Prophet wrote and spoke in General Conference or Stake Conference, or anywhere, was the Word of the Lord and more important than Scripture, because Scripture was written by dead prophets.

3. Negroes are the cursed and inferior children of Cain, less valiant in the War in Heaven, but the Lord has shown mercy upon them and given them the priesthood before the Millennium was over as was expected.

4. Archaeology has already proven the Book of Mormon to be true.

5. Lamanites have dark skin because the Lord cursed them with a skin of darkness, but Lamanites who join the Church gradually become lighter, which is a divine sign.

6. Evolution is a lie of Lucifer and is not in any way true. Animals were brought here from another planet, fully formed as they are now.

7. Mormon women are pure, and would never even think about disobeying a commandment of God, unless forced to by some unworthy male, and they marry non-mormons only because they can't find a worthy Mormon to marry. They are not concerned at all about material things, like Worldly women, but care only about finding a worthy priesthood holder who honors his priesthood and can take them to the temple.

8. Many people have been saved from physical harm by wearing their garments, from traffic accidents to bullets in war.

9. If you are a worthy Member of the Church, and you have a child that is retarded or deformed, God has not cursed you, but blessed you again, because God knew that such a choice spirit had to be born of worthy parents who could care for it better than Gentile parents who might abuse the child.

10. If you are worthy (attending meetings, paying tithing, etc.), God will send you blessings: which include (for men) God will send you a beautiful young woman to take to the Temple, or (for women) God will send you a worthy successful husband who honors his priesthood to take to the Temple, and He will send you healthy and well-behaved children, and job promotions, and protection in travel, and all the things you need to live a happy comfortable life.

11. Before the Jaredites landed in America, there was not one living soul upon the entire continent from Nome Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, and when Lehi and the rest arrived, there was only one lone Jaredite left, to tell his story.

12. Before Peleg, all the continents were joined together, but during his time the continents shifted apart (in a matter of hours or days or a few decades at most).

13. The reason why the animals and plants in Australia are so different from all other parts of the world, is that one of the black children of Canaan took one of his sisters, built a raft, and took all the unique masrupials (except the possums), and unique plants, and sailed off for Australia from the Middle-East, and that is why there are thousands of totally unique plants and animals in Australia.

14. The American Indians are the pure descendants of Lehi the Jew and Ishmael the Arab. Why do they look different from Jews and Arabs? Because God cursed them, that's why.

15. What about the Chinese and other Asians? Why is their skin not white? Why do they look different from Adam and Eve (and God and Jesus)? God must have cursed them TOO some time in the past, but we don't have a record of it.

16. Because Cain killed Abel, God caused his skin to become black, his nose to widen, his lips to thicken, and his hair to kink. He married one of his white sisters, and God did the same thing to her, and they became the parents of the Negro race.

17. Adam and Eve were white, of course! Why would God create a man NOT in His image and the image of His Son? [note: in official Church publications still today, Adam and Eve are presented as white Anglo-Saxons. Not Semitic looking. Not Greek looking. Not Persian looking. Not Spanish looking. Not Mexican looking. But white Anglo-Saxon looking people: just like the great majority of Mormons were until just recently years]

18. The dead are lost unless we perform ordinances for them in our temples [note: the vast great majority of the dead left no records.....no way for us to do their ordinances].

19. During the Millennium "the records will be found" for all those who have died so their work can be done in the Temples [note: from where? The Akashic records? No records of any kind were ever kept for the majority of people who have lived and died on this planet]

20. Mary was a virgin in the same way that your mother was a virgin when you were conceived if your parents were married, since the wedding bed is unfiled, and God the Father was married to His spirit-daughter Mary as one of His many wives when He came down to beget Jesus, and the Holy Ghost was there only to overshadow Mary so she could withstand the Presence of God the Father.

21. Mary was a virgin in the sense that she did not have sex with mortal man before she had Jesus, and the Father begot Jesus in the same manner that mortal men beget mortal sons. Why would the Father choose a different way of begetting than He ordained for His children?

22. The doctrine that God the Father came down and begot a son with Mary is one of the most beautiful and noble doctrines ever revealed to man! All Gods will have the privilege of stepping down from their thrones to beget sons to be saviors of fallen worlds with their most beautiful spirit-daughters.

23. If Mormon women don't want to date you, Darrick, much less marry you, it means you're not worthy, because they will only date worthy men, and all of them have the Spirit of Discernment; meaning they can tell if you are worthy or not, so you must not be living the Gospel!

24. The Brethren are Prophets, Seers, Revelators, and all of them have the Spirit of Discernment, if anyone, at any time, tries to deceive them, they would fail, because the Brethren would discern that immediately, so, Darrick, you must be delusional regarding Brother Mark Hofmann when you falsely claim that he is an atheist and forging these documents he is selling to the Church! He is doing the Church a great service with his historical finds. There is something wrong with YOU, Darrick, not Brother Hofmann. Have you considered seeking professional help with these voices and delusions?

25. There have been no changes in the Endowment ceremony, and can be none, because they were revealed in purity as a direct Revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith, and have come down to us in absolute purity, and they simply can never be changed.

26. Of course "Mormon Doctrine" by Elder Bruce R. McConkie is official! Why would the Church quote from it in the Church Manuals, and why would the Church allow it to be distributed all over the place if it wasn't official?

27. Darrick, we find your "STORY" that your roommate is sleeping with young Mormon girls very hard to believe. You should remember that Lucifer too was an accuser of his brethren. Our young women would NEVER do what you are claiming they are doing, under any circumstances. It's beyond their nature. We hope that you would repent of these false and malicious allegations, and begin to live the Gospel, and reap the blessings thereof, and we admonish you never to speak of these false and malicious rumors again if you value your Church membership and your chances of entrance into the Celestial Kingdom.

28. No, Brigham Young never taught the so-called Adam-God doctrine. He never taught that. He is being misquoted. The Journal of Discourses is very inaccurate, and was never official. It was never published by the Church.

29. People leave the Church because they are adulterers, or because they want to smoke and drink, those are really the only reasons people would ever leave the Church.

30. Brother Evenson, why are you asking questions all the time? What is wrong with you? If you were living the Gospel, you'd never have any questions. You're just obey. What have you done privately to make you lose the Spirit and cause you to keep asking questions?

31. No, the Curse of Cain Doctrine was never the personal opinion of Church leaders. They never give their personal opinion during General Conference talks. What they say during General Conference is Scripture...the absolute infallible Word of the Lord on every subject they speak about.

32. The Great Flood of Noah was not local, that is false doctrine. The entire earth was covered, and all life perished save those on the ark. The Earth had to be baptized, and baptism must be by total immersion.

33. Of course the Living Prophet is infallible. Everybody knows that! They don't have to say "We are infallible". Of course they are. Everybody KNOWS that.

34. If a Living Prophet contradicts a Dead Prophet, you listen to the Living Prophet. While he is living, the Living Prophet is infallible. However, once he is dead he becomes a Dead Prophet, and the teachings of Dead Prophets are not infallible.

35. All Mormon bishops have the Spirit of Discernment. Nobody can lie to them. The bishops always know who is lying and unworthy. [note: they can tell whose naughty and nice like Santa Claus]

36. Mormon women never lie, but if they lie to you they are justified in doing so, because they must have had a good reason to do so.

37. The Brethren would never lie to us.

38. Joseph Smith had Divine Authority. So, if he lied about polygamy, God justified him, because he was protecting the Church, and had divine authority to do so.

39. The Brethren have Divine Authority over the entire Earth. They can lie to you, but you can't lie to them. Just as your parents can lie to you, and tell you babies come from storks. They can lie to protect you from knowledge that may hurt you. But that's not really lying, because they are lying for the Lord, and if you lie for the Lord, you're not really lying.

Yes....I am ASHAMED to now say....I once swallowed all this BULL crap! I hang my head in shame for being so ignorant. Thank God He has opened my eyes, I can see now see the light of day.

[_Drifting]

1. The Book of Mormon is the history of the American Indians of North and South America.

2. Everything the Living Prophet wrote and spoke in General Conference or Stake Conference, or anywhere, was the Word of the Lord and more important than Scripture, because Scripture was written by dead prophets.

3. Negroes are the cursed and inferior children of Cain, less valiant in the War in Heaven, but the Lord has shown mercy upon them and given them the priesthood before the Millennium was over as was expected.

4. Archaeology has already proven the Book of Mormon to be true.

5. Lamanites have dark skin because the Lord cursed them with a skin of darkness, but Lamanites who join the Church gradually become lighter, which is a divine sign.

6. Evolution is a lie of Lucifer and is not in any way true. Animals were brought here from another planet, fully formed as they are now.

8. Many people have been saved from physical harm by wearing their garments, from traffic accidents to bullets in war.

9. If you are a worthy Member of the Church, and you have a child that is r******* or deformed, God has not cursed you, but blessed you again, because God knew that such a choice spirit had to be born of worthy parents who could care for it better than Gentile parents who might abuse the child.

10. If you are worthy (attending meetings, paying tithing, etc.), God will send you blessings: which include (for men) God will send you a beautiful young woman to take to the Temple, or (for women) God will send you a worthy successful husband who honors his priesthood to take to the Temple, and He will send you healthy and well-behaved children, and job promotions, and protection in travel, and all the things you need to live a happy comfortable life.

11. Before the Jaredites landed in America, there was not one living soul upon the entire continent from Nome Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, and when Lehi and the rest arrived, there was only one lone Jaredite left, to tell his story.

14. The American Indians are the pure descendants of Lehi the Jew and Ishmael the Arab. Why do they look different from Jews and Arabs? Because God cursed them, that's why.

16. Because Cain killed Abel, God caused his skin to become black, his nose to widen, his lips to thicken, and his hair to kink. He married one of his white sisters, and God did the same thing to her, and they became the parents of the Negro race.

17. Adam and Eve were white, of course! Why would God create a man NOT in His image and the image of His Son?

18. The dead are lost unless we perform ordinances for them in our temples.

21. Mary was a virgin in the sense that she did not have sex with mortal man before she had Jesus, and the Father begot Jesus in the same manner that mortal men beget mortal sons. Why would the Father choose a different way of begetting than He ordained for His children?

24. The Brethren are Prophets, Seers, Revelators, and all of them have the Spirit of Discernment, if anyone, at any time, tries to deceive them, they would fail, because the Brethren would discern that immediately

25. There have been no changes in the Endowment ceremony, and can be none, because they were revealed in purity as a direct Revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith, and have come down to us in absolute purity, and they simply can never be changed.

26. Of course "Mormon Doctrine" by Elder Bruce R. McConkie is official! Why would the Church quote from it in the Church Manuals, and why would the Church allow it to be distributed all over the place if it wasn't official?

28. No, Brigham Young never taught the so-called Adam-God doctrine. He never taught that. He is being misquoted. The Journal of Discourses is very inaccurate, and was never official. It was never published by the Church.

29. People leave the Church because they are adulterers, or because they want to smoke and drink, those are really the only reasons people would ever leave the Church.

30. If you were living the Gospel, you'd never have any questions. You're just to obey.

31. No, the Curse of Cain Doctrine was never the personal opinion of Church leaders. They never give their personal opinion during General Conference talks. What they say during General Conference is Scripture...the absolute infallible Word of the Lord on every subject they speak about.

32. The Great Flood of Noah was not local, that is false doctrine. The entire earth was covered, and all life perished save those on the ark. The Earth had to be baptized, and baptism must be by total immersion.

33. Of course the Living Prophet is infallible. Everybody knows that! They don't have to say "We are infallible". Of course they are. Everybody KNOWS that.

35. All Mormon bishops have the Spirit of Discernment. Nobody can lie to them. The bishops always know who is lying and unworthy.

37. The Brethren would never lie to us.

39. The Brethren have Divine Authority over the entire Earth.

I have amended your list and can concur that these^ things were also taught to me.

[_DarkHelmet]

I predict the apologetic response will be "I have never heard of such teachings. You must have attended one of those rogue wards."

There is the gospel according to apologists, and then there is the gospel that is taught in ward buildings on sundays. For some reason these rogue teachings are getting into the manuals while the apologetic teachings are not.

[_Yoda]

I predict the apologetic response will be "I have never heard of such teachings. You must have attended one of those rogue wards."

There is the gospel according to apologists, and then there is the gospel that is taught in ward buildings on sundays. For some reason these rogue teachings are getting into the manuals while the apologetic teachings are not.

I agree that many of the things that Darrick referred to were taught. However, there are also a lot of things that Darrick referenced which I would consider extremely rogue.

I do not have time at the moment to go through every single one, but I might address these later.

[_Daheshist]

I was not told that the Brethren had "Divine Authority to lie" until after I discovered that Joseph Smith had lied about polygamy, that Church leaders like Wilford Woodruff and others had issued the Manifesto in 1890 saying they had stopped authorizing plural marriages, but at the same time they continued to authorize plural marriages as long as the ordinance was performed outside the territory of Utah. Mormon men would take a woman to Canada or Arizona, or sometimes Mexico, get married polygamously, and then head back to Utah. This way, Woodruff would "honestly" says that "No plural marriages have been performed in this Territory". This is how Church leaders remained honest. I would ask Institute Instructors (the bastions of orthodox Mormonism) and COB employees and older Mormon men about this and they would say..."They have the AUTHORITY!"

As far as Mary being married to God the Father, and God the Father "siring" Jesus with Mary, his spirit-daughter, just as a man does with a woman...yes I was told this many many times, and I asked many Institute Instructors, Seminary Teachers, COB people, almost every single Mormon man over the age of 35 I asked believed that as "of course"! Most told me it was the "greatest Revelation ever revealed by God to man" and it was "beautiful" that they would have sex with their "most beautiful spirit daughters" (the fat/ugly ones were not included I guess) once they became Gods, created their own planets, populated them, and they would need saviors for those fallen worlds, so the men would say "I will do what I have seen the Father do" and "step down from their thrones" and "join" with one of their most beautiful spirit-daughters, who is now one of their many wives, to "sire" a savior in the same way mortal men "sire" mortal sons. Almost every single Mormon male over the age of 40 I spoke with about this (probably 40 to 50 men) believed this! This was in the mid-1980s. I was in my mid-20s at the time. Yes, I even found many LDS women who believed this too! Most Mormon men today who are under the age of 50 probably don't believe this, but only because its never been taught to them. If it was taught to them, if the Brethren still taught it, they would've course believe it just as their fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers did.

The Church openly taught this "Heavenly Incest Doctrine" (my name for it....the male Mormons did not have a "name" for it although they enthusiatically believed in it) until 1972, when the Brethren thought it wise not to openly toss this "pearl" in public discourse.

I consider the "Heavenly Incest Doctrine" to be one of the most BLASPHEMOUS teachings ever invented by the perverted minds of men. Still today it pains me to no end to think I sacrificed my youth thinking of ways to defend this Church! Oh my God! What a waste of a life. The only way I can make up for this is to fight against it, and reveal to the world, the best I can, the TRUTH about Mormonism...which is that its a LIE from beginning to end.

[_Yoda]

I was not told that the Brethren had "Divine Authority to lie" until after I discovered that Joseph Smith had lied about polygamy, that Church leaders like Wilford Woodruff and others had issued the Manifesto in 1890 saying they had stopped authorizing plural marriages, but at the same time they continued to authorize plural marriages as long as the ordinance was performed outside the territory of Utah. Mormon men would take a woman to Canada or Arizona, or sometimes Mexico, get married polygamously, and then head back to Utah. This way, Woodruff would "honestly" says that "No plural marriages have been performed in this Territory". This is how Church leaders remained honest. I would ask Institute Instructors (the bastions of orthodox Mormonism) and COB employees and older Mormon men about this and they would say..."They have the AUTHORITY!"

As far as Mary being married to God the Father, and God the Father "siring" Jesus with Mary, his spirit-daughter, just as a man does with a woman...yes I was told this many many times, and I asked many Institute Instructors, Seminary Teachers, COB people, almost every single Mormon man over the age of 35 I asked believed that as "of course"! Most told me it was the "greatest Revelation ever revealed by God to man" and it was "beautiful" that they would have sex with their "most beautiful spirit daughters" (the fat/ugly ones were not included I guess) once they became Gods, created their own planets, populated them, and they would need saviors for those fallen worlds, so the men would say "I will do what I have seen the Father do" and "step down from their thrones" and "join" with one of their most beautiful spirit-daughters, who is now one of their many wives, to "sire" a savior in the same way mortal men "sire" mortal sons. Almost every single Mormon male over the age of 40 I spoke with about this (probably 40 to 50 men) believed this! This was in the mid-1980s. I was in my mid-20s at the time. Yes, I even found many LDS women who believed this too! Most Mormon men today who are under the age of 50 probably don't believe this, but only because its never been taught to them. If it was taught to them, if the Brethren still taught it, they would've course believe it just as their fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers did.

The Church openly taught this "Heavenly Incest Doctrine" (my name for it....the male Mormons did not have a "name" for it although they enthusiatically believed in it) until 1972, when the Brethren thought it wise not to openly toss this "pearl" in public discourse.

I consider the "Heavenly Incest Doctrine" to be one of the most BLASPHEMOUS teachings ever invented by the perverted minds of men. Still today it pains me to no end to think I sacrificed my youth thinking of ways to defend this Church! Oh my God! What a waste of a life. The only way I can make up for this is to fight against it, and reveal to the world, the best I can, the TRUTH about Mormonism...which is that its a LIE from beginning to end.

Well, Darrick, maybe what I am about to tell you will make you feel a little better. Who knows? Maybe not. It depends on what type of value you stake on what I am going to tell you, I suppose, as far as whether or not you feel I am being truthful. I think that those who post regularly here can attest to the fact that I am a straight-shooter, and that I am also pretty knowledgable when it comes to the LDS gospel.

I don't care how many people you have heard it from, but this "Heavenly Incest Doctrine" is NOT, and never has been official LDS doctrine.

I believe that you and I are about the same age. I am 47. The 80's does seem to be the era when the whole "Mary virgin" concept was discussed fairly often. Like you, I was also taught that Heavenly Father was the natural father of Christ, and that Mary was, ultimately the wife of God the Father, and that Joseph was an earthly husband for Mary.

However, I was also taught that Jesus Christ was the Savior of not only this world, but of all other worlds which were created prior, and would ever be created. There would never be a need for another savior. Christ was the one and only.

The people you spoke with, who made this leap to having incest with future daughters, and actually being happy or aroused by the prospect, makes them pretty sick individuals, in my opinion. I don't care how many of these people we're talking about.

Take my observation for what it's worth, but I hope it helps you somewhat.

...the fat/ugly ones were not included I guess...

You have, in multiple threads, stated that all fat women were ugly. Do you really believe that an overweight woman cannot be attractive? This seems like a pretty shallow way to look at women, or anyone, for that matter.

[_Daheshist]

Liz,


1. You state that the Heavenly Incest Doctrine was never "official". I still can't nail down what is "official" Church doctrine and what is not. All I can tell you is this: Mormon leaders taught it, and Mormon men (and many women) believed it. But concluding "What is official Mormon doctrine?" is like trying to nail jello to the wall. Church leaders are contradictory of what it is. Many times I've written to Church headquarters asking for a definition of what is official Church doctrine and what is not. The reply: "Ask your bishop". But bishops contradict each other!!! The Church itself does not know what "official" Church doctrine is.

2. Did I say fat women were all "ugly"? I did not. I said, that I was not capable of falling in love with a fat woman. And I tried. I dated one for 2 and 1/2 years. I dated others. I danced with probably 300 over the years. I treated them well, always. The other LDS men I knew either treated them like NON-beings, or made fun of them.

3. Do I have a "shallow" opinion of women? Well, let me say this. Women are governed by Nature, with a capital "N". When Nature says "Do this" and God says "Don't do that" women are always, 100% of the time, going to obey Nature, if there is a conflict. This is what Moses (or whomever) tried to say in the parable of Adam and Eve...the women obey the Snake. So, are Mormon women any different? No. Not any. The Mormon women I knew lied, gave my roommates knob jobs, believed my roommates when my roommates lied to them, thought I was coming on to them SIMPLY because I have large eyes, and thought all the time I was making EYES at them (I wasn't), were presumptuous, dishonest, immoral, materialistic. MOST Mormon women are like that. About 10% were not. About 10% were honest moral women. But, even these, were chasing the rich immoral men looking to them for marriage. Again, the instinct in women is stronger than any Free Agency they may have. Eve will always "bite the apple". That is what the author of Genesis was trying to tell us. And he was right.

[_Fiannan]

3. Do I have a "shallow" opinion of women? Well, let me say this. Women are governed by Nature, with a capital "N". When Nature says "Do this" and God says "Don't do that" women are always, 100% of the time, going to obey Nature, if there is a conflict. This is what Moses (or whomever) tried to say in the parable of Adam and Eve...the women obey the Snake. So, are Mormon women any different? No. Not any. The Mormon women I knew lied, gave my roommates knob jobs, believed my roommates when my roommates lied to them, thought I was coming on to them SIMPLY because I have large eyes, and thought all the time I was making EYES at them (I wasn't), were presumptuous, dishonest, immoral, materialistic. MOST Mormon women are like that. About 10% were not. About 10% were honest moral women. But, even these, were chasing the rich immoral men looking to them for marriage. Again, the instinct in women is stronger than any Free Agency they may have. Eve will always "bite the apple". That is what the author of Genesis was trying to tell us. And he was right.

You are bitter, aren't you?

No wonder the women did not want anything to do with you, you probably radiate so much negativity that you scared them away. You seriously need to read one of those "Secret" books that Oprah is always pushing and try to build up your positive energy.

[_Yoda]

Did I say fat women were all "ugly"? I did not. I said, that I was not capable of falling in love with a fat woman. And I tried. I dated one for 2 and 1/2 years. I dated others. I danced with probably 300 over the years. I treated them well, always. The other LDS men I knew either treated them like NON-beings, or made fun of them.

Darrick, I am genuinely curious. What do you consider fat? Could you consider a woman attractive who is well-groomed, but slightly overweight?

And what does it mean that you "tried" to fall in love with a woman you dated for 2 1/2 years? Was the only thing you didn't like about her the fact that she was fat? Did you have common interests? Was she fun to hang out with? To talk to?

[_Dr. Shades]

Was the only thing you didn't like about her the fact that she was far?

He didn't mention anything about it being a long-distance relationship, so he probably disliked the fact that she was overweight.