Racist Book of Mormon Stories - Refuting the Mopologists

[_Drifting]

So when Spencer W Kimball confirmed that the darkies were turning into lighties through righteousness, just like in the Book of Mormon, literally before his very eyes, you are saying he lied?

No, he was speaking of intermarriage and cultural interchange that would occur as the gospel spread in the Latter Days. I know that intermarriage and cultural blending, syncretism, and heterodoxy of this kind is anathema to the present doctrine of multiculturalism, but it is what the Church appers to have long taught.

"I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today.... The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--sixteen--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness."
- Apostle Elder Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, 1960

[_Droopy]

What does race have to do with the plan of salvation?

Why are you asking me? Its the leftists and liberals here who are obsessed by it, not me.

Lineage has a great deal to do with the plan of salvation in its mortal context and processes, but I don't accept "race" as an actual scientific phenomenon. There are no such thing as different "races" of homo sapiens sapiens.

[Guest]

I wonder how Droopy will get out of that one? It's quite clear that Kimball believed that religious practice alone could change skin color in a short period, contrary to what Droopy claimed.

Maybe he might even say he made a mistake?

[_Drifting]

The last time I heard that counsel given was in the late seventies. It was, and still is, good council, under certain circumstances and for a number of potential reasons having nothing to do with race (and it doesn't, by the way), but not for the same reasons it was once taught in a past cultural setting. Culture and even subcultural background can be salient features of a decision to marry, as one never only marries a spouse, but that spouse's family (and vice versa).

From the current Youth lesson 'choosing an eternal companion'

We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally

[_Runtu]

Its not outdated in the slightest, except in the sense that one crossing clear ethnic boundaries at one time might have meant serious conflicts for the marriage, family, and children. In some contexts, this can still very much be the case, as with socioeconomic background and educational levels. Marriage, in the contemporary Left-dominated world, can be a crap shoot at its best, and there is no reason to add strain and stress where few societal supports remain in the general secular culture.

So, God advises us to make marital decisions based on what our racist families and neighbors might say? Yikes.

I can understand cultural differences being an issue, but these are not directly related to man-made "ethnic boundaries." Take, for example, a Bolivian who wants to marry an Argentine of similar genetic makeup. The church says this is fine and dandy, but Argentines tend to think of Bolivians the way white Americans tend to think of Mexicans: lower class, illiterate, lazy, etc. For this reason, Bolivians don't think much of Argentines, either.

So, the cultural difference has nothing to do with race. In Guatemala, the indigenous folks and the "mixed-race" ladinos have been shown to have identical genetic makeup, but culturally they do not mix. It's culture, not "race" or skin color, that makes the difference.

I think God knows the difference.

[_Droopy]

"I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today.... The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--sixteen--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness."
- Apostle Elder Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, 1960

This is of no use to your argument unless you can show what Elder Kimball thought was the actually active cause of the changes he said he saw.

Its also clear you have not the slightest idea what you're talking about, or where you're going with this. Spencer Kimball had a great love for the Amerindians, as have many LDS apostles. The Amerindians were, indeed, among the first peoples (and the English) to whom missionary work was inaugurated after the organization of the Church.

Spin your wheels and throw as much mud and gravel as you wish.

[_Drifting]

"I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today.... The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--sixteen--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness."
- Apostle Elder Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, 1960

This is of no use to your argument unless you can show what Elder Kimball thought was the actually active cause of the changes he said he saw.

Its also clear you have not the slightest idea what you're talking about, or where you're going with this. Spencer Kimball had a great love for the Amerindians, as have many LDS apostles. The Amerindians were, indeed, among the first peoples (and the English) to whom missionary work was inaugurated after the organization of the Church.

Spin your wheels and throw as much mud and gravel as you wish.

What was the home placement programme that Kimball states as where children were lighter than their brothers or sisters?

[_Buffalo]

Some of the morphological changes in the Book of Mormon are clearly literal, and some are not. The multiple levels of meaning and symbolism in religious language and teachings such as found in the Book of Mormon support layered, textured meanings that can be understood to both reflect and imply each other.

Most importantly, the concept of "race" is found nowhere in the Book of Mormon (as it is, most prominently, among the contemporary cultural Left, for whom it (among other things) represents a sociocultural wedge through which they divide and tribalize various groups from one another as a means of attaining their true goal, political power). The cultural groups in play in the Book of Mormon alter their appearance (or it is altered) through both genetic changes and personal choice (dissenters from the Nephites in one instance mark themselves and take on the clothing and other norms of the Lamanites (their culture, in other words) of their own volition.

Lighter and darker skin in the Book of Mormon is both symbolic, literal, and cultural in importance. It has no racial connotation, but it does have importance to the concept of lineage and the "traditions of the fathers"
as handed down through cultural dissemination.

Race has nothing to do with a "skin of blackness" as opposed to the "white and delightsome" skin of the Nephites? How interesting!

[_Chap]

"I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today.... The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--sixteen--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness."
- Apostle Elder Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, 1960

This is of no use to your argument unless you can show what Elder Kimball thought was the actually active cause of the changes he said he saw.

Its also clear you have not the slightest idea what you're talking about, or where you're going with this. Spencer Kimball had a great love for the Amerindians, as have many LDS apostles. The Amerindians were, indeed, among the first peoples (and the English) to whom missionary work was inaugurated after the organization of the Church.

Spin your wheels and throw as much mud and gravel as you wish.

But Droopy said:

So when Spencer W Kimball confirmed that the darkies were turning into lighties through righteousness, just like in the Book of Mormon, literally before his very eyes, you are saying he lied?

No, he was speaking of intermarriage and cultural interchange that would occur as the gospel spread in the Latter Days. I know that intermarriage and cultural blending, syncretism, and heterodoxy of this kind is anathema to the present doctrine of multiculturalism, but it is what the Church appers to have long taught.

From the fact that Kimball is talking of the home placement program making participating kids lighter than their non-participating siblings and parents, it is clear that what Droopy said is just plain wrong.

[_Buffalo]

How in the hell do you get this:

No, he was speaking of intermarriage and cultural interchange that would occur as the gospel spread in the Latter Days.

out of this:

The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter we represent, the little member girl—sixteen—sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....

The mind boggles.

Apparently Kimball couldn't figure out that a long lifetime of exposure to the sun tends to make one a bit darker than a young person with fewer years in the sun.

Kimball was a dim bulb. He also thought that masturbation causes homosexuality.