The Ultimate Red Herring: Official Doctrine (PLEASE READ)

[_Fence Sitter]

Potential GA candidates must have the ability to clearly and concisely state what the Church may not believe.

[_Sethbag]

Apologists are fixers, who job it is to wipe God's fingerprints off the smoking gun.

Wow, awesome quote! Welcome to my sigline.

I agree that the whole concept of "official doctrine" is a big distraction, and is not authentically a part of Mormon teachings. The doctrines of the Mormon church were simply what the church teaches, as the very definition of the word "doctrine" says.

Joseph Smith went around saying things all the time, teaching things, printing things through various organs like the church's newspapers, etc. Things were said in conference, in church, printed in books and manuals, etc. Nowhere was there ever a concept of "official" that differentiated some of the things the Prophets said, printed, delivered in conference, and printed in books and manuals, from other things the Prophets said, printed, delivered in conference, and printed in books and manuals.

The only question that really matters, as STS said in the OP, is whether the things the church is saying, from the earliest days up to the present, reflect conversations the Prophets were having with God, or whether the Prophets were just making this stuff up themselves. That's really the only thing that matters. Now that there's this great big body of stuff the Prophets have taught over the last 170 years that appears to be incompatible with an omniscient God having revealed it, they come up with this idea of "official" doctrine, in order to, as Jaybear so awesomely put it, wipe God's fingerprints off the smoking gun.

[_Runtu]

Merely mentioning doctrine is silly. It isn't needed unless one is trying to cover.

True that.

[_Themis]

The word "doctrine" was not created by Mormons.
It simply means that which is taught.

For Mormon apologists the word is landmine because they are tasked with defending the claim that the LDS Church is led by men who speak by and for God, and obviously God would not tell his Prophets to teach something that was not true.

Ergo, when that which was taught becomes absurd or embarrassing, the claim that it was "not official doctrine" simply means that the teaching was not traceable back to God.

Apologists are fixers, who job it is to wipe God's fingerprints off the smoking gun.

I have said more then once that there is no official doctrine, only doctrine. Doctrine changes over time. Once Adam/god was doctrine for a short time and then abandoned. I agree that official is just a red herring to divert attention away from all the problematic doctrines. Some like a global flood are current doctrine.

[_Equality]

Great post, and I agree that the "official doctrine" dodge is designed to deflect from an investigation of just what it is God tells his prophets.

The trouble is, well, some of these things that the Prophets claimed God told them are silly, proven false, or downright wrongheaded.

That doesn't necessarily mean the church is false. I mean, God could be a trickster God. Maybe he tells the prophets things that are silly, proven false, or downright wrongheaded because God just likes damned with them.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

The odd thing is there's enough "official doctrine" in the Standard Works to expose their fraud.

Where's Shulem when I need a good BofAbr rant?

- VRDRC

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

bumping for bcspace and obiwan.

[_bcspace]

If ANY prophet proclaims through revelation that the Flood was real, and global; and this point is dis-proven, then that means God is not likely talking to that man.

Has any prophet claimed such on this issue?

The question as to whether the church printed the claim in its educational material, or if it gets through correlation, or if conference talks are doctrine is totally irrelevant. Totally. Utterly.

One more time, the question is not about doctrine, official or not it's all about:

Has God been talking to the leaders of the church?

I can agree with this. Have you prayed about it to know if HE is? If you're not getting the same answer I am, why not? Is it because you're brainwashed?

[_Drifting]

Has God been talking to the leaders of the church?

I can agree with this. Have you prayed about it to know if HE is? If you're not getting the same answer I am, why not? Is it because you're brainwashed?

He is getting the same answer you are.
He just chooses to accept it!

[_Themis]

Joseph Smith went around saying things all the time, teaching things, printing things through various organs like the church's newspapers, etc. Things were said in conference, in church, printed in books and manuals, etc. Nowhere was there ever a concept of "official" that differentiated some of the things the Prophets said, printed, delivered in conference, and printed in books and manuals, from other things the Prophets said, printed, delivered in conference, and printed in books and manuals.

Joseph also never had a problem changing doctrine. Members today tend to think of doctrine as truth and therefore unchanging when it really is just what is currently taught and practiced.