Bad ideas, trapped in amber

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_Drifting
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _Drifting »

The Prophets utterances are made in amber.

Once the Prophet opens his mouth at conference or pubishes an article or a book etc his words and phrases are automatically encased in amber.

For instance this:
"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82


and this:

"I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today.... The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--sixteen--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness."
- Apostle Elder Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, 1960
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_ludwigm
_Emeritus
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _ludwigm »

It may be off...

Buffalo wrote:... pamphlets talking about "little factories" were handed out ...

As far as I know, the "little factory talk" was one address of Boyd K. Packer "To Young Men Only", at General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976.
Was it?

It can be found on different sites, with same title and reference.

And it can not be found on http://LDS.org/general-conference/sessi ... 0?lang=eng nor on http://corpus.BYU.edu/gc/.

Was BKP censored at this level?
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Drifting
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _Drifting »

ludwigm wrote:It may be off...

Buffalo wrote:... pamphlets talking about "little factories" were handed out ...

As far as I know, the "little factory talk" was one address of Boyd K. Packer "To Young Men Only", at General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976.
Was it?

It can be found on different sites, with same title and reference.

And it can not be found on http://LDS.org/general-conference/sessi ... 0?lang=eng nor on http://corpus.BYU.edu/gc/.

Was BKP censored at this level?


It cannot be found on LDS.org period.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _zeezrom »

When is the knee length hemline for adults going to get trapped in amber and set to the side?
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_ludwigm
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _ludwigm »

Drifting wrote:It cannot be found on LDS.org period.

I know.

But ... why? as far as I know, the church has nothing to hide.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _Buffalo »

Drifting wrote:
It cannot be found on LDS.org period.


Obviously the church is embarrassed about it. Maybe they talked to a reputable physician and learned that BKP's ideas about sperm production and arousal were total bunk.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Quasimodo
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _Quasimodo »

Darth J wrote:What I'm looking to do is extract Mormonism from the amber, and then, through the miracle of cloning, bring the hokey, Disney-esque Mormonism of the 1970's and 80's back to life.

Sure, it may have been selected for extinction, and thus not be able to survive on its own in the modern world. But it would still be a wonder to see the old Mormonism walk the Earth once again.


A bit like a T Rex? An interesting experiment that might turn very scary. Chomp, chomp. Munch, munch.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Runtu
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _Runtu »

The temple endowment ceremony is said to have been restored from ancient ritual:

It was through the Prophet Joseph Smith in the nineteenth century that the Lord restored again to earth the holy ordinances of temple covenants and blessings. ("Endowed with Covenants and Blessings," Ensign, Feb. 1995)


One has only to read the scriptures carefully, particularly the modern scriptures, to discover that temples must have been built and used in antiquity, even in the days of the antediluvian patriarchs. In Doctrine and Covenants 124:39, the Lord speaks of his holy house “… which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name.” [D&C 124:39] (Italics added.) And why should not temples be as necessary for the giving of holy endowments to the living in the days of the ancient patriarchs as now? Surely the Lord’s requirements for the exaltation of men in antiquity would be essentially the same.

When one thinks of Enoch and his people who walked with God and were received into his bosom (Moses 7:69), it seems incredible that they should be so received without the endowments usually given to men in holy temples only. Much is said in Doctrine and Covenants 132:29–37 [D&C 132:29–37] about the blessings Abraham received as a result of his faith in God. The Lord says that he “hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.” (D&C 132:39.) The same may be said of Isaac and Jacob. (D&C 132:37.) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob must have had sealed upon them all of the blessings of the gospel, including all of the holy endowments given to the faithful in mortality. ("Ancient Temples and Their Functions," Sidney Sperry, Ensign, Jan. 1972)


Joseph’s understanding of specific temple ordinances grew from these concepts in 1831 to a crescendo in 1844. In 1834, the need for a restoration of all the ordinances of the gospel was revealed: “We all admit that the Gospel has ordinances, and if so, had it not always ordinances, and were not its ordinances always the same?” ("The Restoration of Major Doctrines through Joseph Smith: Priesthood, the Word of God, and the Temple, Ensign, Feb. 1989)


Sacred ordinances and the divine authority to administer them did not begin with the Restoration of the gospel and the founding of the modern Church in 1830. The sacred ordinances of the gospel as requirements for salvation and exaltation were “instituted from before the foundation of the world.” 5 They have always been an immutable part of the gospel. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles.” 6

If this were not the case, salvation would indeed be an arbitrary matter and would be restricted to those few who may have been fortunate enough to have heard of, and believed in, Jesus Christ. It is this principle of consistent and unalterable requirements that gives true meaning to the performance of vicarious ordinances in the temple. The Prophet wrote that baptism for the dead and the recording of such baptisms conform “to the ordinance and preparation that the Lord ordained and prepared before the foundation of the world, for the salvation of the dead who should die without a knowledge of the gospel.” 7

Through time and apostasy following Christ’s Resurrection and Ascension, however, the divine authority of the priesthood and the sacred ordinances were changed or lost, and the associated covenants were broken.(Dennis Neuenschwander, "Ordinances and Covenants," Ensign, Aug. 2001)


Of course, we know that Joseph Smith adapted the endowment from contemporary Masonic ritual and that Freemasonry has its origins in the Middle Ages, sometime around the 14th century. So, we still have folks like Nibley and others trying to find parallels to the temple endowment in antiquity.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Carton
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _Carton »

Interesting thread, Buffalo.

You mentioned female hysteria above. I'm sure there were several "hysteria" treatment centers in Utah in the late 19th/early 20th century. I wonder if sister wives got a two for one discount?
"I do not want you to think that I am very righteous, for I am not."
Joseph Smith (History of the Church 5:401)
_Buffalo
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Re: Bad ideas, trapped in amber

Post by _Buffalo »

Very good, Runtu. I forget his name but there's an LDS apologist who is also a Mason who acknowledges that Masonry does NOT have roots in Solomon's Temple. After listening to George Miller's podcast and reading some of Antiquities of Freemasonry, you can really see that it was very popular in the 19th century for Masons to try to project their craft back to Biblical times. But it just isn't so.

Masonic ritual originated as a way to simply identify who was a member and who was not for professional purposes, so that fake masons wouldn't take construction jobs away from real ones. It's rather redundant in the era of photo ID cards, but the signs and tokens are still there, trapped in amber.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
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