What single honest act would hurt LDS the most?

[_SteelHead]

The original Hebrew from which steel is translated in the Old Testament actually translates to bronze and was an error on the part of the King James translators.

Saying that uninspired translators make mistakes is one thing, but using them as an argument for steel in the Book of Mormon either means god is incompetent and can't translate bronze to bronze correctly from reformed Egyptian to English, or that Joseph just plagarized the word steel from the Old Testament. Either way weakens your postiton.

[_schreech]

As to addressing the "steel bow"; the Bible already does. 2 Sam 22: 35, Ps. 18: 34, Job 20: 24, all of which are pre-Nephi. I probably shouldn't have given you those references; you'll now probably accuse Joseph Smith of stealing ideas from the Bible.

As to the herd animals running loose; my guess is they were Jaredite livestock that escaped when those people suffered their collapse. This ain't brain surgery, people; just read with an open and honest heart, instead of desperately grasping at any straw that comes along. (Hence, my gnat-strainer prize.)

2 Sam 22: 35 - bronze
Job 20: 24 - iron and bronze/brass
Ps. 18 - bronze

As for your second paragraph....LOL! Your "guess" would be wrong and the animals mentioned in 1 Nephi would be considered an anachronism no matter how you twist it.

So, where is that apology? I assume you are going to continue this, very transparent, attempt to weasel out of it but I just figured I would ask.

[_Quasimodo]

As to addressing the "steel bow"; the Bible already does. 2 Sam 22: 35, Ps. 18: 34, Job 20: 24, all of which are pre-Nephi. I probably shouldn't have given you those references; you'll now probably accuse Joseph Smith of stealing ideas from the Bible.

As to the herd animals running loose; my guess is they were Jaredite livestock that escaped when those people suffered their collapse. This ain't brain surgery, people; just read with an open and honest heart, instead of desperately grasping at any straw that comes along. (Hence, my gnat-strainer prize.)

2 Samuel 22: 35 "He trains my hands for battle; my arms can bend a bow of bronze."

Job 24 “He may flee from the iron weapon,
But the bronze bow will pierce him."

No steel.

As to the herd animals running loose; my guess is they were Jaredite livestock that escaped when those people suffered their collapse.

Certainly no archaeological evidence of those animals existing during that time in the Western Hemisphere.

This ain't brain surgery, people; just read with an open and honest heart, instead of desperately grasping at any straw that comes along.

I have. It's still too ridiculous to believe. There is absolutely no reason to believe any of this. Have you ever considered that it might be you that is grasping at straws?

My experience with the Book of Mormon started when I was about sixteen. Right off the bat I found it suspect. The copy I had printed the facsimiles in the front.

I had been a history buff long before that and Joseph Smith saying "King Pharaoh" made me suspect. As I'm sure you know, Pharaoh is not a name. It's the Egyptian word for King.

The next thing that put me off was the use of Elizabethan English. I could only conclude that he was doing this to sound more biblical. Horse biscuits.

[_SteelHead]

By horse biscuits..... do you really mean "tapir dung"? Loan words and what not.

[_Quasimodo]

By horse biscuits..... do you really mean "tapir dung"? Loan words and what not.

I do. Llama dung might work as well.

[_Darth J]

Joseph Smith needed Harris's "bankroll": you don't. Besides, you already have many advantages Smith didn't have; computers and word processors, education, and, apparently, a lot of time on your hands.

Not as much time as Joseph Smith had. You're just trying to weasel out of the challenge. Put up or shut up. Also, is anyone at least training to become a suicide bomber yet because they believe in your imitation of the Koran?

Anyone sneaking around your house, trying to steal the source material for your "book"? I doubt it.

No, nobody that I know of has been trying to steal my King James Bible, mound builder folklore, Yankee patriotism, contemporary stories about the Indians being descendants of Israel, and stereotypes of Native Americans.

If you can show me you have a level playing field with Joseph Smith, I might consider bankrolling your efforts. But, let's face it: you're never going to write that book, and I'm just going to keep playing ping-pong with you over every niggling criticism you come up with. I think it's getting to the point where we're wasting each other's time.

So you are just going to weasel out of the challenge. I'm not surprised. But, although you are unwilling to put up, you clearly do not intend to shut up.

And, as to your 3,000+ word effort; any explanation for that laughable anachronism about syphillus in the 5th. century A.D? If something like that had been in the first 3,000 words of 1 Nephi, you know good and well it would have been hooted to the high heavens.

Hmm.....people are going to laugh at obvious anachronisms and disbelieve my story on that basis.

Yes, let's think that over.........

(Has anyone else noticed that this is the anachronism he is hung up on, rather than building a flying saucer out of plastic in the 5th century? Do you think it just went over his head that I deliberately put in obvious anachronisms?)

You get a pass, though, because no one seriously thinks you're inspired.

Well, people do seriously think the Koran is inspired, to the point that some of them are willing to commit mass murder over it. So take the Koran Challenge, or admit that Islam is the one, true religion.

[_Darth J]

As to the herd animals running loose; my guess is they were Jaredite livestock that escaped when those people suffered their collapse. This ain't brain surgery, people; just read with an open and honest heart, instead of desperately grasping at any straw that comes along. (Hence, my gnat-strainer prize.)

dramatic irony: irony that is inherent in speeches or a situation of a drama and is understood by the audience but not grasped by the characters in the play.

[_Runtu]

As to the herd animals running loose; my guess is they were Jaredite livestock that escaped when those people suffered their collapse. This ain't brain surgery, people; just read with an open and honest heart, instead of desperately grasping at any straw that comes along. (Hence, my gnat-strainer prize.)

What kind of livestock did pre-Columbian Americans have? The Book of Mormon mentions flocks feeding in a pasture, but I can't picture ducks and turkeys being herded that way. Can you?

The Incas had llamas, alpacas, and guanacos, but no one I know is arguing for a South American setting for the Book of Mormon. Is that your theory?

[_SteelHead]

I have a hypothesis I would like to propose. logjam is actually Stake President Paternostro's critic baiting alter ego.

As the things he says more often than not strengthen the postion he opposes and yet him seems to say them in all the fervor of a true tbm.

[_ludwigm]

Sheesh, you people.

Sheesh, you people.

Could not Lehi have been bi-lingual and bi-cultural?

He may have been bi-sexual. We don't know if he ever existed.

Especially if he did business with the Egyptians, and there are many indications that was his profession.

CFR Please cite one indication.

The Book of Mormon as later related, was written in "reformed Egyptian"; perhaps Egyptian was an easier language to write in than Hebrew.

Please try to write one sentence in both language (a simple one, for example "It's raining"), then compare them, please.

I'm no linguistics expert

Accepted.
I am not one, too. Most of us are laymans. And most of us have common sense

Remember, he was inscribing things on metal plates, so an easy and shorthand language would be preferable to something that would take more room.

Up to now, this was written and/or cited many times. And, up to now, I didn't see anybody who proved it by using real examples.
For me, writing in letters (the least units of writing/pronouncing) seem to be the best way to describe anything.

Egyptian probably proved to be a more convenient language for that purpose than Hebrew.

CFR, where was it proved. (probably...)
Why Egyptian ~glyphs are not used nowadays? Why Chinese and Japs use letters instead of picture-like scribblings? Did they choose a less convenient way to write and read?