Question about the Race/Lineage ban.

[_Morley]

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[_bcspace]

What does this have to do with anything?

Where do you think being cursed pertaining to the priesthood derives from in LDS doctrine? Look at the GS guide under Ham. Egyptus, his wife, is a descendent of Cain according to official doctrine.

How do Cain's transgressions impact anyone else?

I'm merely referring to the scriptures which say they do. But there is other precedent for the iniquity of an ancestor such as Numbers 14:18. This does not mean any of these people cannot ever have full and complete salvation, it's just a consequence of the actions of their fathers.

How is this possibly a "choice made" by those who where banned from the priesthood until 1978?

It's not expressly. It's the result of a choice an ancestor made which caused them to accept traditions that imitated the Priesthood. The Lord blessed them in other ways.

[Guest]

BC. This is what I'm getting from you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1) You don't think we humans are necessarily descended from Adam and Eve. But you believe that African blacks are all descended from a cursed son of Adam named Cain--and that they were denied the priesthood only because of this bloodline.

2) You don't believe in a global flood, but you believe the African people are all descended through the loins of Ham, who was on Noah's boat carrying the curse of Cain in a local flood in the Middle East.

3) African blacks carried this curse (from their ancestor, Cain), through all times and places, until 1978 when the president of the Church released them from it and allowed them to finally have the priesthood.

4) The second Article of Faith says: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." However, Cain's descendants had to be punished for his transgression for thousands of years. And Cain's descendants are only African blacks or those with that bloodline.

Additionally, (except for the local flood) you believe these are all LDS doctrine (or at the very least are compatible).

Do I have this right?


Oh, by the way: Happy Martin Luther King Day.

[_Darth J]

Let's see.......an entire race of people will be denied the priesthood because of something their (mythological) ancestor did. Hmm.......

The Articles of Faith

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

Oh, but that's different.....for some reason......

But then we must remember that this priesthood ban thing was because of "lineage," not "race." Because those are two different things.....right?

lineage: lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry or extraction: She could trace her lineage to the early Pilgrims.

Synonyms for lineage: birth, blood, breed, clan, descendants, descent, extraction, family, folk, forebears, genealogy, heredity, house, kin, kindred, line, offspring, origin, pedigree, progenitors, progeny, race, stirps, stock, succession, tribe

race: a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

[_Darth J]

The modern wisdom If I recall correctly, is that the Greeks and others besides Africans also are descendent (or leavened) from Cain and so that, and not anything about the Flood, is what makes a ban on black Africans only problematic.

BCSpace, do you have a peer-reviewed journal of anthropology you could recommend where I could read more about the ancient Greeks being "leavened" with the.....yeast.....of Cain?

Also, I was not aware until just now that the LDS Church denied the priesthood to men of Greek descent. Are there like some conference talks or church publications or something you would suggest so that I can learn about it?

[_Morley]

racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

...or gets to participate in saving ordinances that another race doesn't.

[_Darth J]

racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

...or gets to participate in saving ordinances that another race doesn't.

You mean like a "cultural or individual achievement"?

[_Morley]

...or gets to participate in saving ordinances that another race doesn't.

You mean like a "cultural or individual achievement"?

Yeah. Webelos.

[_Drifting]

2 Nephi 5:21
"And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

*LDS.org, online scriptures 16th January 2012*

I notice that they are still using the phrases 'white' and 'skin of blackness' to differentiate between righteous and unrighteous people - God, according to the Book of Mormon, definitely advocates using skin colour as a worthiness indicator.

[_Morley]

BC. This is what I'm getting from you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1) You don't think we humans are necessarily descended from Adam and Eve. But you believe that African blacks are all descended from a cursed son of Adam named Cain--and that they were denied the priesthood only because of this bloodline.

2) You don't believe in a global flood, but you believe the African people are all descended through the loins of Ham, who was on Noah's boat carrying the curse of Cain in a local flood in the Middle East.

3) African blacks carried this curse (from their ancestor, Cain), through all times and places, until 1978 when the president of the Church released them from it and allowed them to finally have the priesthood.

4) The second Article of Faith says: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." However, Cain's descendants had to be punished for his transgression for thousands of years. And Cain's descendants are only African blacks or those with that bloodline.

Additionally, (except for the local flood) you believe these are all LDS doctrine (or at the very least are compatible).

Do I have this right?


Oh, by the way: Happy Martin Luther King Day.

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