Bernard Gui is Saved

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_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

hans castorp wrote:Court of Love, 14th century style:

Moreover, witnesses--if they are any--can be heard against such an individual. He himself can be constrained in various ways including limitation of food and being held in chains. He can even, on the recommendation of qualified persons, be put to the question in order to get at the truth, as the nature of the business at hand and the condition of the person may require.

Bernard Gui,The Inquisitor's Manual

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_ajax18
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _ajax18 »

Maybe Ammon was just using that old missionary technique, "Building on a common belief." I wonder how Ammon would have handled an interview on Larry King.

In all fairness I heard missionaries ask questions only to get the craziest hair brained responses from investigators, upon which the missionaries would always respond, "That's right, that's exactly right." Then the missionariers would add to the investigator's answer whatever they thought was needed to make their answer at least arguable right.

Bernard Gui has always been one of my favorites over there at MAD. He's the kind of person the Church looks for when they pick leaders. He knows how to treat people once you have them sufficiently committed and invested in the faith.
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_Droopy
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _Droopy »

Just for the road, who on earth is Ron Lafferty?
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_Droopy
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _Droopy »

That is the pre-mortal Jesus talking about how he is going to be born in the flesh when he enters mortality. It is irrelevant to the idea of God the Father having a physical body.



As you may see above, Graham nowhere mentions "God the Father" until later in his post (indeed, the second to last paragraph) where he introduces this definitional equivocation in his argument. He says "God," for the bulk of it, only introducing "God the Father" once, in a later paragraph.

Now, Christ and the Father are "one." If one has seen me, Jesus says in the New Testament, one has "seen the Father," Paul says that the Father is "the express image" of the person of the Father. "Let us go down," the Grand Council said, and make man in "our" image and in "our" likeness.

The Savior also mentioned that he did nothing, and came to do nothing, that he had not seen the Father do. His entire life was an extension and representation of the Father's. A "spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." was Jesus remark about his fundamental material structure and individuality, and if Jesus and the Father are one, and if everything Jesus does is a representation of that which has and is done by the Father, then Christ and his Father are of the same species, the same type, the same class, and the same ontological nature, a part of which, because it is ultimate and fundamental, is their individual and material form.

The Book of Mormon says nothing out of harmony with the New Testament here, and indeed, goes beyond it in the Book of Ether toward the full understanding of God's nature as found in D&C 130:22.

Its long become apparent that having a philosophically substantive and intellectually mature debate with either you or Graham is a human impossibility, but respond I continue to do, just for the record.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_bcspace
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _bcspace »

Again you're reading current Mormon doctrine into the text when the text says no such thing.


If the Bible and the Book of Mormon are to work together, as even the Book of Mormon itself teaches, then a trinity doctrine cannot work. The Book of Mormon in no way precludes the anthropomorphic God. It merely doesn't address it.
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_Droopy
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _Droopy »

Kevin Graham wrote:Notice, of course, that Loran has no way of digging Bernard out of his own hole here. All he knows how to do is attack me.


No, all I've done is point out where your making a fool of yourself promulgating obvious strained sophistries when you should be engaging in clear, philosophically disciplined and intellectually honest discussion.

The fact is Bernard didn't know what the hell he was talking about, and I demonstrated this by citing the scriptures he refused to read.


Huff, puff, and bluff. Indeed, I think from now on your nickname in the antipologetic world should be Huffington Graham.

The fact that the entire thread was nuked from the forum is hilarious, and proof that what I say is true. I mean why else would the mods completely remove a thread...


I think you being present in it would be, at face value, motive enough.

Loran is just upset that there are more Mormons who refuse to converse with him, than there are Mormons who refuse to converse with me.


I'm not upset at all. I'm just pointing out that you either have very little understanding of LDS doctrine and its own scriptures, or you are pretending not to.

In both cases, this reflects badly on nobody else but you.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _Droopy »

The Inquisitor's Manual[/quote]
Image


Looks like Kevin in his final moments as he looks up and sees Karl Marx, who says to him, "I've got something to tell you. I think you'd better sit down..."
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_moksha
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _moksha »

Gods obviously cannot be "Great Spirits" since that would mean any canoodling with the Sister Wives would not take place. False doctrinal hooey spread by jealous monogamists no doubt.

Gui can spot hooey.
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _Polygamy-Porter »

Droopy wrote:Just for the road, who on earth is Ron Lafferty?

Are you that dense?

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_CaliforniaKid
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Re: Bernard Gui is Saved

Post by _CaliforniaKid »

It should be noted that even in Nauvoo, when some Indians came to visit Joseph Smith, he referred to God as the "Great Spirit" in conversation with them.
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