CES employee resigns

[_malkie]

...
The first time I returned from a military deployment I would feel awkward when someone would say they appreciated my service. It was my job and I was doing what I had said I'd do. There are a lot of other people who were very heroic. I personally would say my wife had to be much more heroic than I ever had to be. In that sense, I can relate to your comment above.
...

I'm not an American, and I do not necessarily agree with the fact that you were deployed (I mean in a political sense - I may disagree with your government's actions in sending you), but I do appreciate your service. You don't need to do something "heroic" to be a hero. Your job was the job of a hero. Sorry if I make you feel awkward by saying so.

[_honorentheos]

...
The first time I returned from a military deployment I would feel awkward when someone would say they appreciated my service. It was my job and I was doing what I had said I'd do. There are a lot of other people who were very heroic. I personally would say my wife had to be much more heroic than I ever had to be. In that sense, I can relate to your comment above.
...

I'm not an American, and I do not necessarily agree with the fact that you were deployed (I mean in a political sense - I may disagree with your government's actions in sending you), but I do appreciate your service. You don't need to do something "heroic" to be a hero. Your job was the job of a hero. Sorry if I make you feel awkward by saying so.

Thank you. And it's ok. I've become more gracious in accepting the compliment. But guys like Stak who were out front every day deserve it more. And wives left at home to take care of families maybe even more so than the 11B's.

For the record, I wasn't in favor of the invasion of Iraq even while serving. But, whenever someone asked me about it, I'd ask back - "Are you asking me as a voting citizen of the United States? or as a professional soldier?" I've met a lot of people who haven't been able to understand how I could square the two. And maybe it's why I understand how many New Order Mormon's feel - life isn't black-and-white and the lines of duty, principle, and obligation aren't always neatly drawn.

In the context of the OP and the podcast, I guess that's what I meant by understanding Jason's point about heroism. In some people's cases, it's perhaps the better part of valor to keep a family together or stand still when the world moves too quickly around you. I don't feel so empowered to say. But I also feel the McLay's deserve credit for making choices more difficult than I think I had to make even if leaving wasn't easy for me either. In this case, it's a bit like the difference in my service where by the grace of God* I never saw direct combat and the sacrifice of the soldier out on point taking fire day in, day out. I respect the hell out of them, and thank God* my family didn't have the additional burdens that could have come with it.

* - I use the term respectfully in the absence of a succinct suitable substitute. While I think there is a more accurate way of saying it's the outcome of chance mixed with the culmination of my previous life choices, "God" makes for a suitable shorthand.

[_Buffalo]

I don't see this couple as brave. They quit. Nothing brave in quiting. Much better to stick it out and try. But they just gave up. They took the easy way out.

And then, people tried to help them come back. These people were brave. They went out of their way to arrange a meeting with a GA. Got the meeting. And in the end, the couple were too afraid to commit. I see no bravery at all. They quit too soon.

The easiest thing to do in Mormonism is just go with the flow. The church is set up to make life miserable for those who leave. If they just stuck it out, they would have lost none of their friends, family, employment. They're taking the hard road, not the easy road. They're very brave. You, on the other hand, are a coward.

[_LDSToronto]

Dear Wife just walked into the kitchen and said, "The McKays are just like us!"

She says, the feelings, the parents, the struggle, everything is the same - you could write a textbook on how it feels to leave the church.

My wife and I are currently on hour two and we've both had the same reaction.

H.

[_LDSToronto]

I don't see this couple as brave. They quit. Nothing brave in quiting. Much better to stick it out and try. But they just gave up. They took the easy way out.

And then, people tried to help them come back. These people were brave. They went out of their way to arrange a meeting with a GA. Got the meeting. And in the end, the couple were too afraid to commit. I see no bravery at all. They quit too soon.

Wow, if the McLay's are not brave, that must make you to be the lowest of cravens.

H.

[_sock puppet]

Did you make the right decision by choosing to not fully participate in the Church and in the gospel?

I haven't denied the holy ghost. And that makes all the difference. They did deny the holy ghost and the feelings that he gave to them as members. See my point?

Indeed, why me, you haven't denied the Holy Ghost because there is no Holy Ghost to deny.

[_Drifting]

Did you make the right decision by choosing to not fully participate in the Church and in the gospel?

I haven't denied the holy ghost. And that makes all the difference. They did deny the holy ghost and the feelings that he gave to them as members. See my point?

Indeed, why me, you haven't denied the Holy Ghost because there is no Holy Ghost to deny.

Aren't you automatically denying the Holy Ghost when you stop attending Church, or does disobedience to what the Holy Ghost tells you not count as quite so bad?

Was Joseph Smith denying the Holy Ghost when he thought He had prompted the sale in Canada of the Book of Mormon or does wrongly allocating feelings from Satan as from the Holy Ghost not count as quite so bad?

How do we know we are denying the Holy Ghost when there is no clarity on how to identify promptings from the Holy Ghost? (Even the Prophet couldn't pick it out!)