"Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

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_Panopticon
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Panopticon »

I am atheist and a spiritual naturalist (i.e., I don't believe that the supernatural exists, but I do value what are traditionally referred to as "spiritual" experiences - transcendence, awe, elevation, peace, connectedness, etc - I just believe that they are products of natural psychological and physiological processes).

The particular sensation of "the feeling of warmth in my chest" is already being investigated by psychological researchers. They refer to it as “elevation”. This is what they have to say about it: Elevation appears to be the opposite of social disgust. It is triggered by witnessing acts of human moral beauty or virtue. Elevation involves a warm or glowing feeling in the chest, and it makes people want to become morally better themselves. Because elevation increases one's desire to affiliate with and help others, it provides a clear illustration of B. L. Fredrickson's broaden-and-build model of the positive emotions.

Here are a few quotes and links.

http://www.naturalism.org/naturali.htm
The spiritual experience - the experience of meaning, connection and joy, often informed by philosophy or religion - is, from a naturalistic perspective, a state of the physical person, not evidence for a higher realm or non-physical essence. Nevertheless, this understanding of spirituality doesn’t lessen the attraction of such an experience, or its value for the naturalist. We naturally crave such feelings and so will seek the means to achieve them consistent with our philosophy.


http://www.naturalism.org/spiritua.htm
Although naturalism may at first seem an unlikely basis for spirituality, a naturalistic vision of ourselves and the world can inspire and inform spiritual experience. Naturalism understands such experience as psychological states constituted by the activity of our brains, but this doesn't lessen the appeal of such experience, or render it less profound. Appreciating the fact of our complete inclusion in nature can generate feelings of connection and meaning that rival those offered by traditional religions, and those feelings reflect the empirical reality of our being at home in the cosmos.


http://www.naturalism.org/spiritua1.htm
If you look up the etymology of the word "spiritual," you’ll find that it derives from the Latin "spiritus," meaning "wind" or "breath." Standard dictionary definitions of spiritual contrast it with physical or material, so dualism is more or less built into the ordinary conception of spirituality. But I will argue that just as we can be good without God, we can have spirituality without spirits. Even within the monistic view of the cosmos entailed by a commitment to scientific empiricism, we can avail ourselves of spiritual experience and take an authentically spiritual stance when appreciating our situation as fully physical creatures embedded in a material universe. I hope to show that in its dualism, the traditional notion of spirituality in effect sets up problems of existential alienation and cognitive dissonance that religions have wrestled with, more or less unsuccessfully, for millennia. At a stroke, naturalism cuts these problems off at the root, providing an emotionally satisfying and cognitively unified basis for feeling completely at home in the world.


Psychologists are also studying the emotion of awe. "Awe is a distinct emotion, and specifically an aesthetic emotion (Loew, 1997). And though it might seem that awe is more likely the result of positive stimuli such as a sunrise at sea, rather than the result of negative stimuli such as a tsunami wave, awe does in fact occur in the face of both pleasant and ominous stimuli. Dangerous stimuli such as volcanic eruptions, battles, or extreme electrical storms can produce awe. However, the experience of awe cannot occur if the percipient is in actual danger. A direct threat of harm produces an emotional response of fear, overriding awe. To experience awe rather than dread in the face of forbidding stimuli, one needs to be an observer at safe remove."

As far as we can tell, all mental representations, sensations, perceptions, and emotional states are produced by neurons. During brain surgery, the doctor often electrically stimulates various neurons around a tumor to determine which neurons to cut around. While doing this, the patient is awake and will report seeing lights, hearing sounds, thinking of words, or tingling of limbs. The limbic system, which is responsible for the experience of emotions is deeper in the brain and so is not usually stimulated this way during surgery. However, through drugs and other means, researchers have been able to reproduce many of the sensations involved when having a spiritual experience or near-death experiences. For just a taste of the exciting research in this field

See http://www.maps.org/media/vedantam.html
http://www.Theofrak.com - because traditional religion is so frakked up
_Fence Sitter
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Fence Sitter »

This burning of the spirit/peace/exhilaration is exactly what people in Joseph Smith's time used as evidence to convert to many of those churches that Joseph claimed were false.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Nightlion
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Nightlion »

Fence Sitter wrote:This burning of the spirit/peace/exhilaration is exactly what people in Joseph Smith's time used as evidence to convert to many of those churches that Joseph claimed were false.


Interestingly enough, I am formulating a new thesis that will treat this subject and find some astonishing conclusions.

Hey Sox. Thanks again for the suggested article FC. It was worth the trip back down the rabbit hole. Oh, yeah, so we are human. Humans feel many different ways. All our feelings are still human feelings that we can have for any variety of reasons. God is not manifested in feelings but in power. When a feeling, whether uplifting, somber, troubling, apprehensive, anxious, joyous, broken hearted, meek, repentance, love and compassion or charity is amplified by the POWER of the Holy Ghost then God has communicated something and you need to look into it and try to fathom the depth and breadth of it ASP.

Spirituality is no one trick pony. Of late I was given an anxious feeling and was guarded concerning it all night. In the morning I thought upon the anxiety and was given a release from it by the gift of God. I was being shown that I need not worry about that which had lingered on the back of my mind. God amplified it to an anxiety so he could calm it with an assurance. This is being taught or nurtured of God.

Anyone, experience or not, can be led by God if they look to him in their every thought.
God is truth. When you enter this field of discovery great things will happen.

Contrarily, the world has been made of one heart that is the consensus of peer review. Bowing to this god that sits in the hearts of nearly everyone these days through the administration of the religious rites of academia has captured every heart and mind leaving nothing for looking unto the Lord. If your heart is set upon finding truth one way it will not allow for another. Only by forsaking the world can you enter the field of truth that is a medium God can lead you through and from where you can be added upon.

How vicious and deliberate the war has prolonged in our days. Every means to distract and disconnect man from God and fowl the field stream of truth between man and his Maker has been invented and AMPLIFIED to the extreme. The oneness of the Academic Religion of the Planet Earth is reigning in all power and solidifying its displacement of faith with truth of its own invention. Truth today MUST be carnal and sensual (evidential) which means it CANNOT be of God who is neither carnal nor sensual. The forced monopoly of what will be allowed for truth is a false unanimity that defies God. All men are fools who follow the world in its perversion. Pride is amplified and succeeds in severing and preventing all connections between man and God. Even those who pretend to righteousness are deceived and fail to realize that what they hope is not a reality with God but a consensus of the world as well.

Man is content to live without God. Stupid. Where is one who will not give up on God and seek him on his own terms? God has not moved. He is where he is and can perform all his promises to those who diligently seek him.

Spiritual is power from God. Anything that is not of his power is not of him. Trendy pretenders can read all their lives into God like bashing their heads against the wall. Whomever does not wait upon the power of godliness will never know him.

I preached a little because somehow I knew, Sox, that you wanted me to. And of course because I really enjoy being as galling as possible to the haters of God.
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_zeezrom
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _zeezrom »

NL,

Mortals are the guitars and God is the amp. Interesting!

Zee.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Nightlion
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Nightlion »

zeezrom wrote:NL,

Mortals are the guitars and God is the amp. Interesting!

Zee.


I like that! And we can only hook up by mutual covenant.
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_Panopticon
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Panopticon »

Nightlion wrote:When a feeling, whether uplifting, somber, troubling, apprehensive, anxious, joyous, broken hearted, meek, repentance, love and compassion or charity is amplified by the POWER of the Holy Ghost then God has communicated something and you need to look into it and try to fathom the depth and breadth of it ASP.

Spirituality is no one trick pony. Of late I was given an anxious feeling and was guarded concerning it all night. In the morning I thought upon the anxiety and was given a release from it by the gift of God. I was being shown that I need not worry about that which had lingered on the back of my mind. God amplified it to an anxiety so he could calm it with an assurance. This is being taught or nurtured of God.

Anyone, experience or not, can be led by God if they look to him in their every thought.
God is truth. When you enter this field of discovery great things will happen.

Contrarily, the world has been made of one heart that is the consensus of peer review. Bowing to this god that sits in the hearts of nearly everyone these days through the administration of the religious rites of academia has captured every heart and mind leaving nothing for looking unto the Lord. If your heart is set upon finding truth one way it will not allow for another. Only by forsaking the world can you enter the field of truth that is a medium God can lead you through and from where you can be added upon.

How vicious and deliberate the war has prolonged in our days. Every means to distract and disconnect man from God and fowl the field stream of truth between man and his Maker has been invented and AMPLIFIED to the extreme. The oneness of the Academic Religion of the Planet Earth is reigning in all power and solidifying its displacement of faith with truth of its own invention. Truth today MUST be carnal and sensual (evidential) which means it CANNOT be of God who is neither carnal nor sensual. The forced monopoly of what will be allowed for truth is a false unanimity that defies God. All men are fools who follow the world in its perversion. Pride is amplified and succeeds in severing and preventing all connections between man and God. Even those who pretend to righteousness are deceived and fail to realize that what they hope is not a reality with God but a consensus of the world as well.

Man is content to live without God. Stupid. Where is one who will not give up on God and seek him on his own terms? God has not moved. He is where he is and can perform all his promises to those who diligently seek him.

Spiritual is power from God. Anything that is not of his power is not of him. Trendy pretenders can read all their lives into God like bashing their heads against the wall. Whomever does not wait upon the power of godliness will never know him.

I preached a little because somehow I knew, Sox, that you wanted me to. And of course because I really enjoy being as galling as possible to the haters of God.


I believe that spirituality is nothing more nor less than emotion. We know that emotions can be extremely powerful. They can motivate people to incredible acts of bravery, as well as viscous acts of cruelty. They can make life worth living or drive people to suicide. Why should we suppose that there is anything else (i.e., the Holy Ghost) at work when emotions are a perfectly satisfactory explanation?
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_Buffalo
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Buffalo »

In Asimov's Foundation series, there is a mutant who can manipulate humans through emotional control. Not thought control. And I think that's right - we're an intensely emotion-driven species. So if a religion wishes to control its followers very tightly, it has to be through the manipulation of emotion. The Church is a champion at that.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

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_Infymus
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Infymus »

Back when I was TBM I was into dubbing music, had a nice mixing system and all. Took some church tapes, some Janice (shudder) Kapp Perry and did a little mixup of 3rd Nephi where allegedly Christ appeared to the supposed Nephites.

The mix I did was to do a heightened emotional response with an up-tempo "hallelujah" portion while reading an abridged portion of 3rd Nephi - the part where God says something about "hear ye him" or something like that and Christ allegedly appears.

Took a while because it was all on tapes, hard to get it all right, but once played I could make any TBM cry. They knew it was the spirit.

Later on as a test a few years after I left, I re-did it this time with computers as it was much easier. Again, I was able to invoke the same emotional response.

Imagine that. An apostate, so-called Anti-Mormon being able to invoke the Holy Burning Nipple Ghost.

It just proved that any emotional response is easy and confirmed the BS line that Mormons use. If you feel an emotional response, then it is the Holy Ghost testifying to you. This is a prime reason why missionaries play heart-string tear jerking movies with fake stories paid actors - then tell the people they are feeling the Holy Ghost. They also get them to skip most of the Book of Mormon, read just a few parts, then try Moroni's challenge. Same trick.

Last night I watched a lady get rescued from a mangled car by some firefighters. I felt the holy ghost testify to me it was true.
_Panopticon
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Panopticon »

Infymus wrote:Back when I was TBM I was into dubbing music, had a nice mixing system and all. Took some church tapes, some Janice (shudder) Kapp Perry and did a little mixup of 3rd Nephi where allegedly Christ appeared to the supposed Nephites.

The mix I did was to do a heightened emotional response with an up-tempo "hallelujah" portion while reading an abridged portion of 3rd Nephi - the part where God says something about "hear ye him" or something like that and Christ allegedly appears.

Took a while because it was all on tapes, hard to get it all right, but once played I could make any TBM cry. They knew it was the spirit.

Later on as a test a few years after I left, I re-did it this time with computers as it was much easier. Again, I was able to invoke the same emotional response.

Imagine that. An apostate, so-called Anti-Mormon being able to invoke the Holy Burning Nipple Ghost.

It just proved that any emotional response is easy and confirmed the b***s*** line that Mormons use. If you feel an emotional response, then it is the Holy Ghost testifying to you. This is a prime reason why missionaries play heart-string tear jerking movies with fake stories paid actors - then tell the people they are feeling the Holy Ghost. They also get them to skip most of the Book of Mormon, read just a few parts, then try Moroni's challenge. Same trick.

Last night I watched a lady get rescued from a mangled car by some firefighters. I felt the holy ghost testify to me it was true.


Infymus,

Music has an extremely powerful effect on my emotions. Music like Beethoven's Ninth or Saint-Saëns Organ Symphony always bring me to tears. I used to think this was the "spirit," but now I am convinced that it is simply an emotional/physiological response to stimuli.

Speaking of the organ, have you heard about infrasound? Extremely low frequencies (sub 20 Hz) can have a profound impact upon the human body. This is probably one reason that I like organ music (not hymns, though). I have a Hsu Research sub that can produce a decent 18hz note that you can feel rather than hear. It causes me to tear up, but I never understood why.

It seems that our bodies are wired to respond to infrasound, probably because our ancestors had to deal with large cats that produce extremely low, sometimes inaudible sounds. It was a survival trait for infrasound to trigger the sympathetic nervous system. It makes you feel wary and can inspire feelings of nervousness or dread.

Interestingly, feelings of wariness, dread, etc., are aspects of the numinous and are associated with the holy (see Otto's Idea of the Holy). I believe that religion hijacked the use of infrasound through organ music, drum beats, etc., to produce the desired emotions of awe/dread.

Even though I know what causes these feelings, I still like to listen to organ music or a nice base riff.
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_Aristotle Smith
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Re: "Spiritual"--Is that just emotional?

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

In the LDS church, for the most part, yes.

The mistake is not in utilizing emotions for social cohesion and decision making, but in making that the sole tool for those important things. Each of us is driven by emotion, some more than others. To deny that is I think a fallacy and mistake that many newly minted atheists/uber-rationalists make. It's understandable when has left the LDS church, but in the end it's not realistic.

The right thing to do is to bring every cognitive power you have to bear on figuring out what is true, good, and beautiful. That means bringing logical rationality, empirical observation, reliance on trustworthy authorities, and yes, emotion. The mistake of the LDS church is to focus on the last one and ignore the others when they conflict with emotion.

I always trot out the marriage analogy here. You must connect emotionally with a spouse, but the marriage also has to be rational in real way. To connect emotionally with a crack addict and then marry that person is not right because it's not rational. To enter a good marriage with absolutely no emotional connection to the spouse is also not right because it's not emotional.
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