The Ej Meh Conundrum Attn: bcspace!

[_Drifting]

You will have to go even further back in order to find male and female common ancestors for all present-day mankind in terms of current genetic science: but unfortunately Y-chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve seem likely to have lived at quite different periods.

That would make both reproductive and recreational sex somewhat awkward...

[_Darth J]

First, you don't know how many and which came through the Fall, nor do you know the location of Adam and his family.

In case there is any remaining question at all whether bcspace is just making this up as he goes in an ecstasy of apologetic desperation, notice that he is now contradicting what is stated in the link he previously provided in this thread.

http://LDS.org/ensign/1994/01/i-have-a- ... arden+eden

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the City of Zion, or the New Jerusalem, will be built. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden, they eventually dwelt at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman, situated in what is now Daviess County, Missouri. … We are committed to the fact that Adam dwelt on [the] American continent.”

Plus, one can hypothesize that pre Adamites breeding with pre Adamites after the Fall die out possibility as a result of their children not getting the new spirits (because they didn't breed with the children of Adam) and therefore not being able to compete with the smarter more competitive homo sapiens or possibly as a result of God causing them to die out simply because their time is up.

Australia? The Bering Strait? One does not have to remove the Fall too far back to make it work. Or alternatively, one cannot discount the possibility of God leading a group of people. It's been done before.

So you see, all I've done in my hypothesis is simply accept science and looked to the doctrine as to what is possible and has been done elsewhere.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

[_sock puppet]

First, you don't know how many and which came through the Fall, nor do you know the location of Adam and his family.

In case there is any remaining question at all whether bcspace is just making this up as he goes in an ecstasy of apologetic desperation, notice that he is now contradicting what is stated in the link he previously provided in this thread.

http://LDS.org/ensign/1994/01/i-have-a- ... arden+eden

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the City of Zion, or the New Jerusalem, will be built. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden, they eventually dwelt at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman, situated in what is now Daviess County, Missouri. … We are committed to the fact that Adam dwelt on [the] American continent.”

Plus, one can hypothesize that pre Adamites breeding with pre Adamites after the Fall die out possibility as a result of their children not getting the new spirits (because they didn't breed with the children of Adam) and therefore not being able to compete with the smarter more competitive homo sapiens or possibly as a result of God causing them to die out simply because their time is up.

Australia? The Bering Strait? One does not have to remove the Fall too far back to make it work. Or alternatively, one cannot discount the possibility of God leading a group of people. It's been done before.

So you see, all I've done in my hypothesis is simply accept science and looked to the doctrine as to what is possible and has been done elsewhere.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Apologists would just like to forget that Joseph Fielding Smith ever existed.

[_Darth J]

You will have to go even further back in order to find male and female common ancestors for all present-day mankind in terms of current genetic science: but unfortunately Y-chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve seem likely to have lived at quite different periods.

That would make both reproductive and recreational sex somewhat awkward...

It's kind of like how the number of hot dogs in a package and the number of hot dog buns in a package don't even out.

[_Drifting]

First, you don't know how many and which came through the Fall, nor do you know the location of Adam and his family.

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the City of Zion, or the New Jerusalem, will be built. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden, they eventually dwelt at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman, situated in what is now Daviess County, Missouri. … We are committed to the fact that Adam dwelt on [the] American continent.”

Perhaps the Ensign isn't official doctrine.......

[_Chap]

You will have to go even further back in order to find male and female common ancestors for all present-day mankind in terms of current genetic science: but unfortunately Y-chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve seem likely to have lived at quite different periods.

That would make both reproductive and recreational sex somewhat awkward...

Don't worry. There were plenty of other humans around at the (different) times when these hypothetical individuals are likely to have lived. But the other women who lived at the same time as mitochondrial Eve did not, although they may well have living descendants today, succeed in getting their genes into all of us alive at present. Same for the other men who lived at the same time as Y-chromosome Adam.

[_Darth J]

First, you don't know how many and which came through the Fall, nor do you know the location of Adam and his family.

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the City of Zion, or the New Jerusalem, will be built. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden, they eventually dwelt at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman, situated in what is now Daviess County, Missouri. … We are committed to the fact that Adam dwelt on [the] American continent.”

Perhaps the Ensign isn't official doctrine.......

As I already indicated, the "I Have a Question" section specifically says the answers are not meant to be official church statements. But that is not the point. The point is that bcspace provided that link as proof of his ideas about the physical parameters of the Garden of Eden, and now he is contradicting his own evidence because he needs to in order to have Adam and Eve spread their genes throughout the world. Not only is there a complete lack of proof for any of these "theories," there is no internal consistency. It is 100% ad hoc. But "apologetics" sounds much nicer than "grasping at straws," doesn't it?

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

bump

[_bcspace]

As I already indicated, the "I Have a Question" section specifically says the answers are not meant to be official church statements.

You're absolutely right. But it is not difficult to find doctrine that the earth was a paradise and yet there was a garden of Eden as well.

and now he is contradicting his own evidence because he needs to in order to have Adam and Eve spread their genes throughout the world.

There is no contradiction because the properties which would establish the whole earth to be in a "garden state" or just a local garden are not set.

Not only is there a complete lack of proof for any of these "theories,"

I have merely used the word hypothesis. It's possible that from time to time I have said "my theory", but it is merely an hypothesis.

there is no internal consistency.

Plenty of consistency. I'd say you're confused because I can take my hypothesis in different directions and adapt it to various conditions.

It is 100% ad hoc.

Sure

ad hoc: "Formed for or concerned with one specific purpose"

All I've done is show plausible models in which evolution can fit with LDS doctrine.

[Guest]

It is impossible, my friend. We do know how many "came through" the Fall. About 5 million

How would that make it impossible?

You have rejected science! Totally! Utterly!

You make these claims, but you never provide examples. Why can't the Lord have spread the children of A and E to the various populations? Why can't lines that ultimately don't result in mating with a child of A&E die out? What if, for example, the Flood is a metaphor for that? There are just too many possibilities.