Male Mormons, Ex-Mormons, and Non-Mormons.

[Guest]

Hi MsJack,

...for my own part, he's forgiven. I don't buy that he's really sorry, but that's immaterial. He's forgiven.

...

If he continues his ad hominem campaign on me though, I will bring it up again as a reminder of why I don't respect him or take him seriously, and why no one else should, either.

Maybe this is what I find so objectionable. How does one square the command to forgive 7x70, to feed one's enemy when hungry, to hear the writer of the epistle of John say that he who says he loves God but hates his brother is a liar...how does one square this idea that "I don't buy that he's really sorry" with the above obvious teaching of scripture and then say it's immaterial to have these feelings? That he's forgiven? Because I don't see that he's forgiven in anything you've posted since he's left.

[_MrStakhanovite]

I started this thread because there was 3 or 4 females in chat (which represents like 60% of the active female participants on this board) complaining that they’d wish more men on this board would speak up when serial harassers like Cam started doing what they do, not because they can’t handle Cam, but because the added pressure would make it stop.

And it did.

[_honorentheos]

Fair enough, Stak. I stand corrected on that point as it was a request. My initial impression was it was more of a "saddle-up boys" and given the number of ladies who posted in the thread including comments about not needing the men to defend them it read as unintentionally sexist. So my apologies to you, sir.

[_MsJack]

honorentheos ~ As I said earlier in this thread:

[T]he last time Cam apologized to a woman on our forums for his behavior towards her (calling Jersey Girl "[p-word omitted]"), he later retracted his apology when he got angry at her again and reiterated his initial remarks. [SNIP] If I stuck around, he'd be back to calling my husband a "pussy" within a month.

And if he fools you twice, shame on you.

That's why I don't think Cam is sorry. If you want me to supply the links where Cam fake-apologized to Jersey Girl and then later took it back, I will. Christian forgiveness does not mean "be gullible."

I don't see what it is about my conduct in this thread that you take so much issue with. The post I just linked to was pretty much my explanation for why I was going to leave the forum if attacks on my family in the Telestial forum were going to be allowed to stand (Cam had not edited his posts yet). Then I made one more post in the thread, commenting on the moderators' recent change of policy and urging Cam's friends to help him keep his behavior in check, because peer pressure seems to be the only thing that gets him to change his ways. I didn't say anything else until you began criticizing me, and my responses to you were an attempt to show that I most certainly had not been "an equally boorish ass" as you so lovingly declared me. You came in here declaring that I was the one who ought to be ashamed of my conduct here, that Cam was the better person; I cited Cam's posting history to demonstrate how off-the-mark you were.

I don't consider forgiving someone to be the same as trusting or respecting them. I could forgive a man for, say, molesting a child. That doesn't mean I would feel comfortable leaving children alone with him again any time soon. That also doesn't mean I wouldn't warn the community about his past behavior; in fact, I would feel an obligation to do so lest a similar fate befall their children.

Or in other words, forgiveness is not a license to continue acting like a jerk without consequence.

I don't see that he's forgiven in anything you've posted since he's left.

If he ever comes back and tries to engage something I wrote respectfully, perhaps you'll see otherwise.

[_MrStakhanovite]

Fair enough, Stak. I stand corrected on that point as it was a request. My initial impression was it was more of a "saddle-up boys" and given the number of ladies who posted in the thread including comments about not needing the men to defend them it read as unintentionally sexist. So my apologies to you, sir.

No apology necessary, you were just asking questions and making observations, I didn’t feel like you were calling me out as being sexist or anything. To be honest, I just saw you trying to discern if this issue is just a popular dogpile on Cam, so I didn’t think much of it.

[_LDSToronto]

I started this thread because there was 3 or 4 females in chat (which represents like 60% of the active female participants on this board) complaining that they’d wish more men on this board would speak up when serial harassers like Cam started doing what they do, not because they can’t handle Cam, but because the added pressure would make it stop.

And it did.

To all the girls I love on this board,

My apologies. I tend to avoid threads started by the usual misogynists, and will often miss out on the abusive comments. Hence, my silence (though I do catch the occasional arsehole and call him on it).

Please don't mistake my silence as acceptance. If I see the Bat Signal, I will come running and looking for testicles to kick.

H.

[_Buffalo]

Okay, check it.

Cam is giving another woman grief , and this time he’s involving her family that doesn’t participate here. I’m all for calling stupid people stupid, but this shouldn’t be tolerated. I’d don’t want to have some meta-discussion about board moderation, I don’t care, green names don’t make policy and talking to Shades about this isn’t worth the effort.

Here is what I propose, the women on this board who get harassed by Cam shouldn’t be left to fend for themselves, so how about the male posters here from all sides of the issue tell Cam to knock it the hell off.


Cam, take issue with Jack, not her family. Stop it.

Word. That crap isn't cool. I had him on ignore for a while because of it.

[_marg]

(My husband sure as hell doesn't forgive him, but that's pretty much not my problem.)

Huh? If I posted with my real name and I showed my husband that exchange with Cam..he certainly would not have taken it personally. He would have said something like, "why are you showing me this crap?" or "why are you arguing with that idiot?" or "why are you continuing to post on that board?" but certainly if someone who doesn't know him were to call him a 'pussy' and if I showed him that, he'd be looking at me wondering why I bothered him with it.

[Guest]

While I understand your point and appreciate where you are coming from, I stand by my posts above. If I am alone in seeing it this way, that's fine.

You are not alone in much of what you said. Ms Jack wants her "friends" to support her when she's being attacked. At the same time, Ms Jack who has cultivated "friends" also supports her friends when they are doing the attacking. She's not adverse to badgering and harassing.

As I said in a previous post the issue for her boils down to the moderation not protecting her or anyone from their family being disparaged on here and now that's been rectified. It's not about rectifying harassment of individuals.

[_Buffalo]

While I understand your point and appreciate where you are coming from, I stand by my posts above. If I am alone in seeing it this way, that's fine.

You are not alone in much of what you said. Ms Jack wants her "friends" to support her when she's being attacked. At the same time, Ms Jack who has cultivated "friends" also supports her friends when they are doing the attacking. She's not adverse to badgering and harrassing.

As I said in a previous post the issue for her boils down to the moderation not protecting her or anyone from their family be disparaged on here and now that's been rectified. It's not about rectifying harassment of individuals.

I've never seen any evidence of that.