just me ~ So, have you decided to stop attending church? Or will you still be going?
I think I remember hearing that your husband is a believer. Am I remembering right?
OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years now!
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_MsJack
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13
My Blogs: Weighted Glory | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable | Twitter
My Blogs: Weighted Glory | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable | Twitter
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_Morley
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
just me wrote:I just can't believe I started this journey somewhere around 3 years ago. The cog-dis began around the time of Prop8 for unrelated reasons. I stopped believing totally at least 2 years ago. Now it seems like time has gone by so fast and here I am, finally getting ready to take my leap of faith off the edge of the known and into the unknown. I've sometimes been frustrated with myself, watching others take a much quicker exit from the church. I was happy with my pace in the early stages, but now not so much.
Life is a lot more exhilarating and complicated without the church to tell me what to do. I get to actually think about things myself now. But, in another way, it is more simple. I don't have to worry about utterly stupid crap.
The funny thing about humans is that no matter how awesome we are, we are also messy and sloppy. We make choices and sometimes we like the results and sometimes we don't. Whose to say that those choices were "wrong" or "right?" They just lead to different experiences and no matter the outcome those experiences become part of us.
I've been told that what I have done is selfish and that I am damaged. It's not okay, what I did. Not to my family. Not to my church family. Thinking for myself and doing things that are good for me is the highest offense. The hurtful things they have said were said out of love and concern, of course. That doesn't make it hurt less.
This has truly been my Refiner's Fire. I will never be the same person I was. I don't want to be. I have been made a new creature. I have broken the bonds and I am free.
The most treasured things I have learned from my journey are these few things:
*God/ess is within me and within each person
*To see the face of god/ess is to truly see myself
*When we serve others, we serve god/ess
*God/ess is love
*Life is precious and precarious and fleeting-live your personal truth
Doing this...doing this is hard. Staying in the church is hard. Leaving the church is hard. Everyone has to follow their own heart, their own path. Live the life you were meant to live. Help people along the way, if you can.
You know the kite story that gets told in church sometimes? The one where the kite can only fly as long as it is tethered by the string? The string is supposed to be the commandments and church and all that. Well, my old kite string was all knotted and tangled and short. Kite strings can be replaced. I found a better one. It is longer, stronger and the fibers are smooth and tangle resistant. I added some more ribbons to the tail, too. Just because I can.
My goodness I love you, just me. I love your posts. I love your honesty. I love your willingness to think and do the hard stuff. I love your playfulness. Thank you.
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_honorentheos
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
just me wrote:This has truly been my Refiner's Fire. I will never be the same person I was. I don't want to be. I have been made a new creature. I have broken the bonds and I am free.
The most treasured things I have learned from my journey are these few things:
*God/ess is within me and within each person
*To see the face of god/ess is to truly see myself
*When we serve others, we serve god/ess
*God/ess is love
*Life is precious and precarious and fleeting-live your personal truth
Just Me,
I've always held an affinity to poetry about travel, some that focus on the endurance or resolve to begin/continue and others joyful/hopeful regarding appreciation of what lies around or where the travellor one days hopes to arrive. For this occation, I thought Li Po might be most fitting as he seems to understand well the desire to cast aside the false illusion of jade and gold (comfort in staying, never leaving) yet knowing as you know that the journey isn't easy.
Hard is the Journey
Gold vessels of fine wines,
thousands a gallon,
Jade dishes of rare meats,
costing more thousands,
I lay my chopsticks down,
no more can banquet,
I draw my sword and stare
wildly about me:
Ice bars my way to cross
the Yellow River,
Snows from dark skies to climb
the T'ai-hang mountains!
At peace I drop a hook
into a brooklet,
At once I'm in a boat
but sailing sunward...
(Hard is the journey,
Hard is the journey,
So many turnings,
And now where am I?)
So when a breeze breaks waves,
bringing fair weather,
I set a cloud for sails,
cross the blue oceans!
Journey well, friend.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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_Blixa
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
That was a beautiful and beautifully written post, justme. Like runtu, I also value your honesty
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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_Analytics
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
just me wrote:I just can't believe I started this journey somewhere around 3 years ago....
I added some more ribbons to the tail, too. Just because I can.
What a beautiful post. Thank you for sharing your journey with us.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
-Yuval Noah Harari
-Yuval Noah Harari
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_Hades
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
why me wrote:Leaving the church is not hard if one does not believe. It is just a matter of walking out the door and not looking back.
Apparently you have never been entrenched in it. You have never had you entire family and social network entrenched in it.
I'm the apostate your bishop warned you about.
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_RockSlider
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
Just me,
You’re the best! I loved your post. Thank you.
I'm interested if you are married to an active member. I love my dear wife, over 30 years married. My freedom from the Church can/will never be full because of her. For example, after years I put my foot down and got a coffee maker … well ok, it's in my office as it has no place in the Kitchen. Or to stop by the pub for a beer … always the tears and that battle.
Because of my love for her, I will never be free from the church.
You’re the best! I loved your post. Thank you.
I'm interested if you are married to an active member. I love my dear wife, over 30 years married. My freedom from the Church can/will never be full because of her. For example, after years I put my foot down and got a coffee maker … well ok, it's in my office as it has no place in the Kitchen. Or to stop by the pub for a beer … always the tears and that battle.
Because of my love for her, I will never be free from the church.
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_just me
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
Oh, you guys. *sigh of contentment* I want to acknowledge all of you so you have been warned!
I'm glad that what I wrote at almost 1:00 in the morning made sense. I was a little worried this morning that I would find a garbled mess of words and everyone scratching their head!
Runtu: Thank you! Taking the time to sit down with myself and get to know me again has been critical in this process. If I hadn't done it (and continue to) I wouldn't know my path. My life would be devoid of personal purpose. I would be lost. I want to thank you for teaching me that I really can stop caring what others think of me. I may not be all the way there yet, but I know I will be.
why me: I have never said here or anywhere else that I was staying in the church forever. I've never claimed to be TBM, lol, quite the opposite.
"Leaving the church is not hard if one does not believe."
That has not been my experience. If it was easy for you when you didn't believe, than that is great. But I have no use for your blanket statement.
You and I are clearly using the word "free" differently. You are using an imaginary freedom and I am speaking of real life freedom.
Bond: Thanks, sweetie!
sock puppet: Thanks for seeing my honesty in this tough journey.
OH! I saw Nirvana in concert about 1993. :D
MCB: Thank you!
bb: :-*
MsJack: Yes. I have decided to stop attending church regularly. It is actually very difficult to stop, though. It may take me a few months to break the habit completely. Plus, I have a child getting baptized in March (which adds a bit of complication). I have started skipping here and there since the fall and judging by my treatment this past Sunday I am now on more radars (the bishop has known of my disbelief since October 2010).
My husband is TBM, yes. So are my parents.
Morley: I love you, too! (((hug)))
Honor: Beautiful poem. You have me in happy tears.
Blixa: Thanks, mom!
Analytics: Thank you so much!
Hades: Exactly what I was thinking!
RockSlider: Awww, thanks! I am married to an active TBM member. Neither of us imagined our lives turning out this way, of course.
I think it is beautiful that you are willing to make such sacrifices for that love.
I'm glad that what I wrote at almost 1:00 in the morning made sense. I was a little worried this morning that I would find a garbled mess of words and everyone scratching their head!
Runtu: Thank you! Taking the time to sit down with myself and get to know me again has been critical in this process. If I hadn't done it (and continue to) I wouldn't know my path. My life would be devoid of personal purpose. I would be lost. I want to thank you for teaching me that I really can stop caring what others think of me. I may not be all the way there yet, but I know I will be.
why me: I have never said here or anywhere else that I was staying in the church forever. I've never claimed to be TBM, lol, quite the opposite.
"Leaving the church is not hard if one does not believe."
That has not been my experience. If it was easy for you when you didn't believe, than that is great. But I have no use for your blanket statement.
You and I are clearly using the word "free" differently. You are using an imaginary freedom and I am speaking of real life freedom.
Bond: Thanks, sweetie!
sock puppet: Thanks for seeing my honesty in this tough journey.
OH! I saw Nirvana in concert about 1993. :D
MCB: Thank you!
bb: :-*
MsJack: Yes. I have decided to stop attending church regularly. It is actually very difficult to stop, though. It may take me a few months to break the habit completely. Plus, I have a child getting baptized in March (which adds a bit of complication). I have started skipping here and there since the fall and judging by my treatment this past Sunday I am now on more radars (the bishop has known of my disbelief since October 2010).
My husband is TBM, yes. So are my parents.
Morley: I love you, too! (((hug)))
Honor: Beautiful poem. You have me in happy tears.
Blixa: Thanks, mom!
Analytics: Thank you so much!
Hades: Exactly what I was thinking!
RockSlider: Awww, thanks! I am married to an active TBM member. Neither of us imagined our lives turning out this way, of course.
I think it is beautiful that you are willing to make such sacrifices for that love.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
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_Fence Sitter
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
Please don't let Why Me derail this thread.
Just Me thanks for sharing your thoughts.
More so than the kite analogy I like to think of in terms of that painting showing the people in the great and spacious building vs those hanging on to the iron rod. Once you enter the great and spacious building you realize the people inside aren't laughing at those holding on to the rod, they just enjoying life, and once inside you can look 360 degrees out of the building and see there are innumerable people holding on to endless rods which all point in different directions, all with their eyes fixed on one point, afraid to look anywhere else, and completely unaware of what is going on around them.
The kite analogy is bad. Life isn't one kite and one string. It is an endless variety of types and colors of kites that can be flown by any length of string.
Just Me thanks for sharing your thoughts.
More so than the kite analogy I like to think of in terms of that painting showing the people in the great and spacious building vs those hanging on to the iron rod. Once you enter the great and spacious building you realize the people inside aren't laughing at those holding on to the rod, they just enjoying life, and once inside you can look 360 degrees out of the building and see there are innumerable people holding on to endless rods which all point in different directions, all with their eyes fixed on one point, afraid to look anywhere else, and completely unaware of what is going on around them.
The kite analogy is bad. Life isn't one kite and one string. It is an endless variety of types and colors of kites that can be flown by any length of string.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
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_sock puppet
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Re: OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years n
just me wrote:sock puppet: Thanks for seeing my honesty in this tough journey.
OH! I saw Nirvana in concert about 1993. :D
You just keep slaying me. The avatar. The location. Now, this--one of the few live music regrets I have in life, never having seen Nirvana play live, and you got to in 1993 when they'd have had released all their music (except for what came out posthumously).
You are the minx.