bcspace wrote: No, I am suggesting the HG knows more about what God wants than either of them. I think it more likely the Bishop had it right, but again, you still don't know if the HG gave the speaker the wrong topic or not.
That would be contrary to the economy of heaven.
[I]t is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instruction for those in authority, higher than themselves . . . if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom.
~Joseph Smith
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
Shortly before his call as an Apostle, Dallin H. Oaks explained: “Our Heavenly Father’s house is a house of order. … Only the President of the Church receives revelation to guide the entire Church. … The person who receives revelation for the ward is the bishop. … Individuals can receive revelation to guide their own lives. But when one person purports to receive revelation for another per-son outside his or her own area of responsibility—such as a Church member who claims to have revelation to guide the entire Church or a person who claims to have a revelation to guide another person over whom he or she has no presiding authority according to the order of the Church—you can be sure that such revelations are not from the Lord” (“Revelation,” New Era, Sept. 1982, 45–46).
The First Presidency said: “When … inspiration conveys something out of harmony with the accepted revelations of the Church or contrary to the decisions of its constituted authorities, Latter-day Saints may know that it is not of God, no matter how plausible it may appear. … Anything at discord with that which comes from God through the head of the Church is not to be received as authoritative or reliable” (in James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols. [1965–75], 4:285).
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
The First Presidency said: “When … inspiration conveys something out of harmony with the accepted revelations of the Church or contrary to the decisions of its constituted authorities, Latter-day Saints may know that it is not of God, no matter how plausible it may appear. … Anything at discord with that which comes from God through the head of the Church is not to be received as authoritative or reliable” (in James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols. [1965–75], 4:285).
So, in summary. You can all have revelation so long as it agrees with the revelations we have received previously on your behalf.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
You know the direct quotes you intentionally omitted? That's how so.
The Bishop has the keys for revelation over the ward. God will not give revelation to someone contrary to that given to he who holds the keys. That's the doctrine.
And you're smart enough to know that, but now you're trying to weasel out of your error.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Maybe JSJr got it slightly incorrect too, from jehovah in the grove. Maybe jehovah told JSJr that all of the sects were right, not that they were all wrong.
sock puppet wrote:Maybe JSJr got it slightly incorrect too, from jehovah in the grove. Maybe jehovah told JSJr that all of the sects were right, not that they were all wrong.
This may well be the case. After all, for many years Joseph struggled to recall WHO spoke to him, let alone WHAT they said.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
The speaker didn't know the meaning of that words. The simplest explanation. (Ockham's razor...)
He (she?) is not alone. Side effect of lay priesthood.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei